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I thought it might be helpful to have a separate topic related to the vaccine.  If this is too much duplication, mods please delete this thread.  I thought it would be good to talk about who can get the vaccine, where they can get it, what side effects people are seeing, and in general what is going on with distribution.

The CDC has published vaccine distribution guidelines, and if you care, they are worth reading.  They are dividing the timeline into:

  • Phase 1 - Potentially limited supply of COVID-19 vaccine doses available
  • Phase 2 - Large number of vaccine doses available
  • Phase 3 - Sufficient supply of vaccine doses for entire population

Who you are will determine if you are eligible for a vaccine in the various phases.

Phase 1 is divided into a Phase 1a and a Phase 1b:

  • Phase 1a - Mostly healthcare workers
  • Phase 1b - Other essential workers, people with higher risks, people over 65

If you are eligible to get the vaccine and they have in in stock and you want to get it, it is important to go get it.  Both of the first two vaccines can spoil, so if a dose is sitting there and you aren't there to get it, they might have to throw it away.

Both vaccines require two shots.  It is important to go get that second shot.

Who fits in phase 1b and who has to wait until phase 2 might be a sticking point.  The "people in higher risks" category includes a lot of folks, maybe more than you would think might be in that category.  Hopefully we can quickly get to phase 2 so that we don't spend too long arguing about who is or is not in Phase 1b.

Anyway, I'm interested in everyone's experience with the vaccine and especially getting the word out for those that can go get it, so that every dose ends up in an arm rather than in the trash.

 

 

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Txzen

Legacy Members

The recognition of nucleic acids is a pretty old and evolutionarily conserved arm of the immune system, regulated by receptors called 'Toll Like Receptors' (named because the German scientist who discovered them in the lab called them 'toll', meaning 'cool'.). Their whole role is to recognize 'coatings' that are used by bacteria, or nucleic acids (single, or double-stranded RNA) used by viruses or bacteria. 

While the nanoparticle coating could potentially diminish 'free' RNA from floating around, I'm not sure that's the mechanism here as TLR receptors cycle into the intracellular space, basically to monitor for the presence of infection. This pathway gets abnormal in people with autoimmune disease, for instance, where the body starts making an immune response to normal cellular RNA and DNA (like in lupus). Basically, there immune system evolved to deal with the threat of nucleic acids floating around that don't belong there. 

I think what's being seen with those with severe allergic hypersensitivity will see it with either RNA vaccine, or at least thats my guess. Again, these are people who have such hypersensitivity they have to travel around with EpiPens, so it's not just people like me that sneeze in contact with anything flowering or furry. 

Bevo

Legacy Members

Are toll like receptors down regulated during apoptosis? Basically what is to prevent an immune response during cell death?

Txzen

Legacy Members

No, and the recognition of 'self' nucleic acids is definitely a pathway for the onset of autoimmune disease. Basically, if a cell dies quietly, you're less likely to have issues. But apoptosis in the context of other inflammatory signals can definitely break self-tolerance. 

rpspeed

Legacy Members

The hospital my wife works at is receiving 950 doses and will start giving them out next Wednesday.

Neonmoon

Certifiably Surly
1 hour ago, rpspeed said:

The hospital my wife works at is receiving 950 doses and will start giving them out next Wednesday.

She make the cut?

Chet Steadman

Legacy Members
11 hours ago, Txzen said:

The recognition of nucleic acids is a pretty old and evolutionarily conserved arm of the immune system, regulated by receptors called 'Toll Like Receptors' (named because the German scientist who discovered them in the lab called them 'toll', meaning 'cool'.). Their whole role is to recognize 'coatings' that are used by bacteria, or nucleic acids (single, or double-stranded RNA) used by viruses or bacteria. 

While the nanoparticle coating could potentially diminish 'free' RNA from floating around, I'm not sure that's the mechanism here as TLR receptors cycle into the intracellular space, basically to monitor for the presence of infection. This pathway gets abnormal in people with autoimmune disease, for instance, where the body starts making an immune response to normal cellular RNA and DNA (like in lupus). Basically, there immune system evolved to deal with the threat of nucleic acids floating around that don't belong there. 

I think what's being seen with those with severe allergic hypersensitivity will see it with either RNA vaccine, or at least thats my guess. Again, these are people who have such hypersensitivity they have to travel around with EpiPens, so it's not just people like me that sneeze in contact with anything flowering or furry. 

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Txzen

Legacy Members

What can I say - I’m a bastion of (sometimes) useless information. 

Anastasis

Certifiably Surly

FDA AdComm meeting underway.  

 

Cheeseweasel

Legacy Members
On 11/20/2020 at 8:17 PM, Heme Doc said:

Fuck this Dec 10 shit.  Warp speed my ass.  They need to move it up by at least a week

And yet, here we are.

Anastasis

Certifiably Surly

This is just regulatory theatre. 

TwiceHorn

Full Members

Should the previously infected get it?

We have this vague notion out there that people can be reinfected, does the vax help/hurt/whofuckingknows?

BradInATX

Full Members
18 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Should the previously infected get it?

We have this vague notion out there that people can be reinfected, does the vax help/hurt/whofuckingknows?

Was wondering the same thing myself, along with other random questions like what happens if you get the first stage of the vax then contract covid before you get the 2nd?

rpspeed

Legacy Members
14 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

She make the cut?

Its on a  first come basis. Its not mandatory and still have to wear a mask after vaccination.

Cheeseweasel

Legacy Members
11 minutes ago, rpspeed said:

still have to wear a mask after vaccination.

That sucks. I want to wear a shirt that says "I'M IMMUNE FROM YOUR BULLSHIT".

High Plains Drifter

Full Members
On 11/20/2020 at 8:58 PM, StruggleBus said:

How about tomorrow you worthless fucking fucks 

 

Calm down, its operation "Warp Speed" not operation "Ludicrous Speed"

 

Cheeseweasel

Legacy Members
20 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

Calm down, its operation "Warp Speed" not operation "Ludicrous Speed"

mel brooks GIF

rpspeed

Legacy Members
29 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

That sucks. I want to wear a shirt that says "I'M IMMUNE FROM YOUR BULLSHIT".

I was like wtf at first but I think she said they are going on an 80% effective  rate and can't have an asymptomatic nurse or doc walking thru the ICU because the vaccine didn't work on them.

Cheeseweasel

Legacy Members
13 minutes ago, rpspeed said:

I was like wtf at first but I think she said they are going on an 80% effective  rate and can't have an asymptomatic nurse or doc walking thru the ICU because the vaccine didn't work on them.

Well, I was promised a T-shirt.

Newdoc

Legacy Members
4 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Well, I was promised a T-shirt.

In the mail...

spacer.png

Anastasis

Certifiably Surly

AdComm endorses the vaccine for 16+ years of age. Total waste of time and resources. FDA better have an EUA ready to roll tomorrow. 

Newdoc

Legacy Members
51 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

AdComm endorses the vaccine for 16+ years of age. Total waste of time and resources. FDA better have an EUA ready to roll tomorrow. 

In the spirit of Waco light tours - “Den let's get our roll on"

Heme Doc

Full Members

Happy EUA Day for Pfizer vaccine!  If we don’t see the FDA issue an EUA today, they should be lit on fire.  Also, who were the four “no” votes on the committee?  I’d like to kick them in the balls repeatedly.  

I got an email from my Pfizer trial location basically letting me know that I’d be unblinded once the EUA was issued and if I received placebo (unlikely), then they’d get me in ASAP for the real vaccine because I’m in healthcare.  
 

Nice Guy Eddie

Certifiably Surly
20 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Should the previously infected get it?

We have this vague notion out there that people can be reinfected, does the vax help/hurt/whofuckingknows?

I’m seeing reports that the previously infected should get it. The vaccine might produce a longer time you are immune. Worse case the vaccine does nothing for you. Outside of implanting the Bill Gates tracker in you, of course.

Heme Doc

Full Members

Two more interesting vaccine things...

It would be nice if we had a quick, readily available test for COVID neutralizing antibodies.  Probably around 60M Americans have already been infected with COVID.  So if you could identify those people, their vaccination could be deferred since it will be in somewhat short supply initially.

Which transitions to the second thing...Almost all of our commercially available antibody tests are to the N (nucleocapsid) part of the coronavirus.  But these vaccines are all built to elicit antibodies to the S (spike) part of the virus.     So if I get vaccine, my antibody test will be negative for N (assuming I haven’t actually had COVID).  So what Pfizer is doing is checking vaccinated folks for the presence N antibodies, which could only be elicited by actual COVID infection.  So you’ll have your answer if vaccination prevents infection entirely (thus halting transmission) or if it only causes infections to be asymptomatic.  

Anastasis

Certifiably Surly
(edited)
13 minutes ago, Heme Doc said:

Happy EUA Day for Pfizer vaccine!  If we don’t see the FDA issue an EUA today, they should be lit on fire.  Also, who were the four “no” votes on the committee?  I’d like to kick them in the balls repeatedly.  

I got an email from my Pfizer trial location basically letting me know that I’d be unblinded once the EUA was issued and if I received placebo (unlikely), then they’d get me in ASAP for the real vaccine because I’m in healthcare.  
 

I think that at least a couple of the no’s would have supported the eua if it was amended to 18+. Hard to know cause they did not do the customary discussion after the vote. But that was my read based on hearing some of the discussion before. The chair just rammed the motion through and stifled a lot of the discussion by shutting down questions. 

Edited by Anastasis
Not

Cheeseweasel

Legacy Members
25 minutes ago, Heme Doc said:

Also, who were the four “no” votes on the committee?

Dr.'s Karen, Karen, Karen, and Karen.

Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Guests

Well, did we miss anyone?  

Cheeseweasel

Legacy Members
(edited)
1 hour ago, Lobo said:

Well, did we miss anyone?  

Episode 11 Pictures GIF by The Simpsons

Edited by Cheeseweasel

GRHorn

crowd sourced
5 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I think that at least a couple of the no’s would have supported the eua if it was amended to 18+. Hard to know cause they did not do the customary discussion after the vote. But that was my read based on hearing some of the discussion before. The chair just rammed the motion through and stifled a lot of the discussion by shutting down questions. 

I would’ve loved to hear what the no’s were based on. We’ve consulted these experts for a reason, their concerns should’ve been fully voiced. Then people could’ve decided on their own if they were well founded, or just based on a small technicality like the age cutoff. 

Pato del Muerto

Certifiably Surly
13 hours ago, Heme Doc said:

Two more interesting vaccine things...

It would be nice if we had a quick, readily available test for COVID neutralizing antibodies.  Probably around 60M Americans have already been infected with COVID.  So if you could identify those people, their vaccination could be deferred since it will be in somewhat short supply initially.

Which transitions to the second thing...Almost all of our commercially available antibody tests are to the N (nucleocapsid) part of the coronavirus.  But these vaccines are all built to elicit antibodies to the S (spike) part of the virus.     So if I get vaccine, my antibody test will be negative for N (assuming I haven’t actually had COVID).  So what Pfizer is doing is checking vaccinated folks for the presence N antibodies, which could only be elicited by actual COVID infection.  So you’ll have your answer if vaccination prevents infection entirely (thus halting transmission) or if it only causes infections to be asymptomatic.  

That our natural immunoresponse is to the N as you say, could mutations there be the reason people can or have had second infection?  Whereas the spike is a stable piece by replication necessity and thus antibodies for it continue to be useful?

Heme Doc

Full Members
12 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

That our natural immunoresponse is to the N as you say, could mutations there be the reason people can or have had second infection?  Whereas the spike is a stable piece by replication necessity and thus antibodies for it continue to be useful?

Our natural immune response is against all parts of the coronavirus (Nucleocapsid, Spike protein, etc).  It’s just that what we are testing for primarily right now is antibodies against N.  So we have a way to distinguish immunity through vaccination (should only have antibodies to Spike) vs immunity through infection (should have antibodies to N, Spike, etc)
 

I’m not sure why people get infected twice, but that is very rare.  Fortunately, coronaviruses are more stable than other viruses like flu, so hopefully we won’t see emergence of mutations affecting Spike protein that will allow it to evade immunity.  

 

 

Heme Doc

Full Members

Oh, and it just got the EUA

MNLonghornFUKM

Legacy Members

So do they start administrating it tonight?

StruggleBus

Full Members

Wow, didn’t see that coming, glad we waited a month 

Pato del Muerto

Certifiably Surly

Do they have an approved list of groupings and stages yet, or are they just going to start with healthcare and LTC type workers while they finalize the draft order?

whithou

New Members

I signed up to help administer the COVID vaccine to medical staff starting next week. Most of the ICU nurses that I work with have passed on getting it. I would have eagerly gotten it if it wasn't for a disqualifying factor (pregnancy). 

Pato del Muerto

Certifiably Surly
6 minutes ago, whithou said:

I signed up to help administer the COVID vaccine to medical staff starting next week. Most of the ICU nurses that I work with have passed on getting it. I would have eagerly gotten it if it wasn't for a disqualifying factor (pregnancy). 

Why are they passing?

Jersey Man10

Burnt Ends

Everyone I work with says they won't take it. I live in a smaller Texas town.

pearlandhorn

Legacy Members

We're fucked as a society because people won't take a fucking shot.

Brisketexan

Legacy Members
We're fucked as a society because people won't take a fucking shot.

Cool, means I’ll get it sooner.

EuroHorn

Legacy Members
10 minutes ago, pearlandhorn said:

We're fucked as a society because people won't take a fucking shot.

We just need the majority to get the shot to get herd immunity 

 

StruggleBus

Full Members
2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


Cool, means I’ll get it sooner.

Exactly. 

Bevo

Legacy Members
43 minutes ago, whithou said:

I signed up to help administer the COVID vaccine to medical staff starting next week. Most of the ICU nurses that I work with have passed on getting it. I would have eagerly gotten it if it wasn't for a disqualifying factor (pregnancy). 

Is it only for employees and physicians with privileges at your hospital or can any physician get it?

Bevo

Legacy Members
11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


Cool, means I’ll get it sooner.

or not. But if you were a politician you would be considered an essential worker.

Incredulity

Legacy Members

It would be fascinating data to see what percentage of frontline healthcare workers who have been in the shit have had asymptotic cases.  Is it possible to deal with infected patients for nine months and not get infected?

 

whithou

New Members
9 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Why are they passing?

Reasons from being "I don't want to be a guinea pig" to "Bill Gates wants to know where I am". I wish I was kidding. When I ask if they have read more about the vaccine most haven't done their own research. 

whithou

New Members
9 hours ago, Bevo said:

Is it only for employees and physicians with privileges at your hospital or can any physician get it?

It's only for those that work at my hospital. 

Armybrat

Legacy Members
(edited)

Pardon me for a brief threadjack, but what does this mean? (Colonoscopy result - I haven’t been to see my doctor yet):

DIAGNOSIS:
Transverse colon, polypectomy:
-Low grade tubular adenoma.

GROSS:
Specimen labeled transverse colon polyp is a single 0.4 cm tan-red
fragment. Entirely submitted in 1A.

 

Edited by Armybrat

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