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Marvel Cinematic Universe the Endless Phase: Tripping Balls (Spoilers)

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3 hours ago, Scary Stranger said:

probably only have time for one after the funeral I have to go to before hand.  I'll see them both but want to prioritize the 'best' one for this week.  

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3 hours ago, Scary Stranger said:

probably only have time for one after the funeral I have to go to before hand.  I'll see them both but want to prioritize the 'best' one for this week.  

Well which seems more interesting to you? Continuing the MCU storyline and not being spoiled about what's next or seeing Superman which is pretty damn good? I'd imagine you've already missed Superman in most of the better screens by now since most of those will go to FF. 

I saw Fantastic Four and loved it, even though I did not expect to. 

Then I tried Ironheart and holy fuck it's much worse than She-Hulk and Secret Invasion combined. I turned it off halfway through the second episode. 

Well which seems more interesting to you? Continuing the MCU storyline and not being spoiled about what's next or seeing Superman which is pretty damn good? I'd imagine you've already missed Superman in most of the better screens by now since most of those will go to FF. 

Yeah, I went with FF on the big screen. Enjoyable.
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6 hours ago, naija said:

Not surprising, it's the end of summer and a lot of people are traveling. And it's MCU and I'd bet a lot of people haven't caught up to the other movies yet. It did what it was supposed to do, against some stiff competition.

Edited by atomheartbevo

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

Not surprising, it's the end of summer and a lot of people are traveling. And it's MCU and I'd bet a lot of people haven't caught up to the other movies yet. It did what it was supposed to do, against some stiff competition.

It was the wrong time to release it alongside Superman, Jurassic whatever and F1. 

The 80% is a little misleading as last Friday's included Thursday previews, but it ended at 66%, which is still not great.  Basically the same as Brave New World.  

It's just a paradigm shift.  They can't slap a Marvel logo on it and expect $800M+.  I think the next one isn't until late 2026 with Doomsday.  We'll see where that goes.

The Marvel phenomenon started in 2012 w/The Avengers? Or IM1?  That was a long time ago.  Trends shift.  Not Marvel's fault.

They need to pivot.  Smaller, cheaper movies, or fewer movies in a year.  Or lean in to the kinda movies/shows that aren't so "super hero," to appeal to non-comic fans.  Shows like the Punisher, Penguin, etc.  Change the names of the characters and you still have a great stand-alone program.

Endgame isn't gonna happen again for at least another generation.  Doomsday is gonna not gonna pull anything like its predecessors.

Diehard Marvel fans still see them the first or second weekend; the rest of the public wait the 6 weeks or whatever for the films to drop Disney+. No doubt that is having an impact on box office performance. 

Edited by Dutch

I think trend seems to be the tried and true pre-Endgame character movies will do really well like Guardians and Spider-Man but anything else will be a modest hit or a flop. Doomsday will probably do a ton because it’s an event movie but it won’t hit Endgame numbers. Tom Holland’s movie will kill it. Marvel just needs to live with lower numbers and smaller budgets. 

22 hours ago, Parliament said:

The Marvel phenomenon started in 2012 w/The Avengers? Or IM1?  That was a long time ago.  Trends shift.  Not Marvel's fault.

They need to pivot.  Smaller, cheaper movies, or fewer movies in a year.  Or lean in to the kinda movies/shows that aren't so "super hero," to appeal to non-comic fans.  Shows like the Punisher, Penguin, etc.  Change the names of the characters and you still have a great stand-alone program.

Endgame isn't gonna happen again for at least another generation.  Doomsday is gonna not gonna pull anything like its predecessors.

They have already knocked it down to about one movie per year, and some franchises go 3+ years between movies. I assume they lose money on most of the high budget shows. They were rocking and rolling during Infinity Saga with 2-3 movies per year, because people bought in to a linked story, known characters and actors, and most of the movies were good. Marvel needs to focus on making better quality movies to get the rank and file Americans excited to go see it in the theatre, whether it's one or three movies a year. When you take huge time gaps in a franchise like Spiderman, Captain America, etc.; they risk fans in some demographics aging out and not keeping their desire to watch it in the next phase of their life (kids going to teens, teens going to young adults, young adults going to parents, etc.).

16 hours ago, Dutch said:

Diehard Marvel fans still see them the first or second weekend; the rest of the public wait the 6 weeks or whatever for the films to drop Disney+. No doubt that is having an impact on box office performance. 

More like 3-4 months before it drops on D+ 

BNW came out 2/14 in theaters and 5/28 on D+

Thunderbolts came out 5/2 and doesn’t have a D+ date yet 

10 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

They have already knocked it down to about one movie per year

There are 3 just this year

The Watch had an interesting quote from the creator who was fired from X-Men 97 about why the MCU has grown stale while Gunn is doing great things now with the DCU. Basically, Fiege rushes things and Lou D'Esposito hates the comics. 

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Wasn’t that guy fired for extreme sexual harassment (against dudes) and has been trying to clear his name and muddy up Marvel Studios at the same time? For a while now 

Yes but what he's saying is probably very true. They're still writing Doomsday, WHILE IT'S FILMING. Rebecca Romijn said she's not sure if she's actually done film as Mystique because the script wasn't actually finished. That's a problem and I just know we're about to get a casting dump with Chris Evans and other previous characters that were given great finales that will be coming back. I really don't want that for Chris Evans. I want him to get paid but I know he's trying to separate himself from Steve Rogers. 

42 minutes ago, mdmost said:

They're still writing Doomsday, WHILE IT'S FILMING.

I have mixed feeling on this as prima facie evidence of bad production management.  There's just plenty of evidence of films with that start with a final draft, end up crap, and films that basically get re-written on the fly and end up terrific.  

Marvel has basically been breaking up productions into a big shoot and a supplementary shoot, anyway.  

Also, Beau DeMayo is basically making the same complaint every creative has ever had about production executives.  

Shooting a CGI-heavy film not knowing how all the scenes come together sounds expensive.

13 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

I have mixed feeling on this as prima facie evidence of bad production management.  There's just plenty of evidence of films with that start with a final draft, end up crap, and films that basically get re-written on the fly and end up terrific.  

Marvel has basically been breaking up productions into a big shoot and a supplementary shoot, anyway.  

Also, Beau DeMayo is basically making the same complaint every creative has ever had about production executives.  

Maybe. I know reshoots happen but a massive interconnected, possibly franchise saving movie not having a finished script seems like a recipe for disaster. Maybe I just like Gunn's idea better which is shit isn't getting made until they're happy with the script. The latest Captain America movie bore that fear out for me. The story was dogshit. 

Edited by mdmost

34 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Maybe. I know reshoots happen but a massive interconnected, possibly franchise saving movie not having a finished script seems like a recipe for disaster. Maybe I just like Gunn's idea better which is shit isn't getting made until they're happy with the script. The latest Captain America movie bore that fear out for me. The story was dogshit. 

I will say this--I think there's some bloom off the Feige rose.  I'm loath to criticize a studio giving chances to up and coming talent with light CV's or confined to TV, or even to prioritize African American screenwriters over more decorated options when the story directly revolves around matters or history experienced in that community.  That said, it's Feige's job to greenlight a production or not and that film was just BORING.  

Just now, LCHorn said:

I will say this--I think there's some bloom off the Feige rose.  I'm loath to criticize a studio giving chances to up and coming talent with light CV's or confined to TV, or even to prioritize African American screenwriters over more decorated options when the story directly revolves around matters or history experienced in that community.  That said, it's Feige's job to greenlight a production or not and that film was just BORING.  

I feel the same but you have to stick with someone and let them have that movie or you don't pick them from the start. It went from Sam's signature movie to being a Frankenstein film that couldn't figure out what it was due to rewrites and reshoots. Was it a Hulk sequel? Was it Sam's Winter Soldier film? What is became was a mess and that sucks for a character who should lead the Avengers going forward. That didn't happen with Black Panther or Captain Marvel. 

I like Mackie, but I don't like anything *serious* he has been the lead in

His season of Altered Carbon? Meh

Brave New World? I already forgot the whole movie

Elevation? Also meh 

Seeing him on The Studio and Twisted Metal?  He has good comedic timing.  He should branch out into comedies. 

And that's fine if you feel that way. I think he's not a bad actor as evidence by other movies where he was just Sam or the Falcon. He has gotten shitty screenwriting in the two MCU products he was featured in. That's a shame for someone you want to put up as the face of the Avengers. His own movie was one of the worst written and developed. He was great in The Studio and the episode of Black Mirror he was the lead in. If he was to be your Captain America going forward, you should've done a better job setting him up for success which was always going to be an uphill battle not just because Chris Evans was Captain America but because of all the things the show touched on. 

2 hours ago, LCHorn said:

Also, Beau DeMayo is basically making the same complaint every creative has ever had about production executives.  

 

I don't trust a word from anyone named "Of Beautiful Mayonnaise".

 

Edited by smuggs

46 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I like Mackie, but I don't like anything *serious* he has been the lead in

 

39 minutes ago, mdmost said:

He has gotten shitty screenwriting in the two MCU products he was featured in.

I've already hit on Mackie's weakness as a lead, but also the character in the MCU is pretty far down the list of notables about which I want to see more, and that's after sitting through all of the Falcon and Winter Soldier episodes.  

 

 

  • Author
3 hours ago, Parliament said:

Shooting a CGI-heavy film not knowing how all the scenes come together sounds expensive.

Cheaper than you think, since the CGI is usually not even close to being done while they are shooting.  Filming people against a green screen, it's easy to change certain elements on the fly without having to reshoot scenes, or you can bring them in for an afternoon of greenscreen fliming and insert them into whatever new scene was written.

But it's not good from a production stand point if they are dealing with large sets.

They fucked up his character by not having him take the serum.  Captain America without super human strength is dumb.

This should be fun. The Zombies episode of What If? was pretty good and bleak. 

https://x.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1956038790797045979

DiscussingFilm

@DiscussingFilm

‘MARVEL ZOMBIES’ will now release on September 24 on Disney+ • Described as a 4-episode TV-MA event series • Includes Shang-Chi, Yelena, Kate Bishop, Red Guardian, Scarlet Witch, Blade, Ms Marvel & more

 

Edited by mdmost

Thunderbolts to D+ August 27

On 8/12/2025 at 11:20 AM, Js1 said:

I like Mackie, but I don't like anything *serious* he has been the lead in

His season of Altered Carbon? Meh

Brave New World? I already forgot the whole movie

Elevation? Also meh 

Seeing him on The Studio and Twisted Metal?  He has good comedic timing.  He should branch out into comedies. 

Altered Carbon season 1 was incredible. Season 2 was a huge let down. I don't know if it was Mackie, or the writing, but I'm loving him in Twisted Metal. So good

  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
Thunderbolts to D+ August 27

I found it entertaining enough. A bit of a different type of story. It helps, a lot, that Florence Pugh is just so damn appealing.
On 8/14/2025 at 1:08 PM, Js1 said:

Thunderbolts to D+ August 27

Watched it a couple of weeks ago with the family.  I'd have to say it's my favorite MCU movie since Endgame.  

2 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

It helps, a lot, that Florence Pugh is just so damn appealing.

Agreed, she's on another level. She can elevate anything that she's in.

33 minutes ago, smuggs said:

Agreed, she's on another level. She can elevate anything that she's in.

One of the MCU's better castings since the OG casting, she's such a star.

56 minutes ago, smuggs said:

Agreed, she's on another level. She can elevate anything that she's in.

 

23 minutes ago, Js1 said:

One of the MCU's better castings since the OG casting, she's such a star.

 

David Harbour too. They have great on-screen chemistry as father/daughter. And he's hilarious.

Yes, Thunderbolts is one of the most rewatchable ones to come out of the post-Endgame era.

8 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Yes, Thunderbolts is one of the most rewatchable ones to come out of the post-Endgame era.

I find it mostly a toned down Super hero Movie(as it would be since most characters don't have massive super powers other than the final boss, and it was even very tame compared to other CGI shit fests).

So I appreciated it for that.

10 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

 

 

David Harbour too. They have great on-screen chemistry as father/daughter. And he's hilarious.

“But I am smart. I am smart man, and I have smart solve.”

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1 hour ago, Michael Knight said:
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Lmfao no way, is this real?

MCU really really screwed the pooch post end game.

I'm sure the pay is good, but it seems like Chris Evans has moved on to other things.  That and all rhe PED's he'd hafta take to get back in Cap shape.

I hope for him that isn’t true but everyone has a price and I’m sure he can be set for life if he does another one. And yes, the MCU is out of ideas if we’re bringing most of the band back. 

They got Hugh Jackman to return after years of him saying "there's no fucking way they'll get me to play Wolverine again".

Chris Evans will be a piece of cake.

So they screwed up so bad that they had to bring about RDJ as someone different, and bring Cap back too?

1 hour ago, Drew said:

So they screwed up so bad that they had to bring about RDJ as someone different, and bring Cap back too?

If you would have told me in 2019 right after End Game shattered records and put a satisfying ending to the saga, with MCU flush with cash and even more good will and audience equity for how they stewarded the last 10 years of Marvel movies....that we would look back in 2025 at the last Phase starting with the Multiverse Saga and the Disney+ garbage and the story is how bad they've fumbled the bag, I wouldn't have believed it.

But hey, maybe this hard reset will help. They gotta find a way to appeal to the mainstream again and not just geeks and nerds.

I think that’s a bit revisionist or at least focusing on the negative as far as the TV shows go. 3 of the first 5 were great (Wandavision, Loki, what if), one very good (Hawkeye), with only one miss in Falcon and WS. Shehulk and Ms Marvel weren’t bad, they were just made for different audiences. New DD was great. Sequals to what if, Loki, WV (Agatha) along with the new animation zombies, eyes of wakanda, and friendly neighborhood spider man were all very good (spiderman was a huge hit). 
 

They whiffed hard on 2 (Invasion, Falcon), had 2 or 3 meh, but have otherwise had 10+ solid to great series come out of all of it, meant for mostly the “main audience” (nerdy probably white males) but also branching out a bit in audience and style. 

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