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  • BearSchlong
    BearSchlong

    My dad died tonight. Had a massive heart attack while on the way home from Church's Chicken. Single car accident, he flipped the SUV. I was on the way to his house and saw the ambulance driving to th

  • Wilcox Cummingtonite
    Wilcox Cummingtonite

    Checking in. Just celebrated my 2nd birthday about a month ago. So happens to be an easy date to remember since it’s actually on my half birthday which is quite fitting. It also is the day after I r

  • Celery Man
    Celery Man

    Welp, yesterday was 1,250 days sober for me.  Today is 1,251.  I don't talk about it much because it's a bit of a cliche and generally frowned upon (relationships in early sobriety), but I fell in lov

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16 hours ago, JohnnyRage said:

Side topic: Is there such a thing coexisting as an Alcoholic and a Real Alcoholic? It would seem so if the disease of addiction is progressive. But those are also specific terms being applied to a subjective curve.

I see it somewhat this way...

Abstinent - Doesn't play with fire

Normie - Dammit

Problem Drinker - Suffers from consequences, but repeats similar behaviors

Heavy Drinker - Tearing their body down with near continuous drinking

Alcoholic - It doesn't work anymore, cravings-consequences-mental obsession, needs help quitting drinking, relapses

Real Alcoholic - Life is terrifying and almost worse without alcohol. Death can be around any corner.

your last two are the only ones where I don't necessarily see a clear delineation, unless maybe it's between alcoholics who could still conceivably quit and harbor a desire at some level for a sober life, and those who've just absolutely given up....? The latter category maybe being at a point where doctors are like "you can't even safely detox that person" a la Townes Van Zandt at the end.

16 hours ago, JohnnyRage said:

Side topic: Is there such a thing coexisting as an Alcoholic and a Real Alcoholic? It would seem so if the disease of addiction is progressive. But those are also specific terms being applied to a subjective curve.

I see it somewhat this way...

Abstinent - Doesn't play with fire

Normie - Dammit

Problem Drinker - Suffers from consequences, but repeats similar behaviors

Heavy Drinker - Tearing their body down with near continuous drinking

Alcoholic - It doesn't work anymore, cravings-consequences-mental obsession, needs help quitting drinking, relapses

Real Alcoholic - Life is terrifying and almost worse without alcohol. Death can be around any corner.

I see the distinction as more underlying cause (and importantly, necessary steps) than severity of problem. Anyone can drink to the point that their life falls apart and they need medical help to detox safely. A non-alcoholic person with a drinking problem can get tired of it, hit the gym and get laid and pull themselves out of their funk, and maybe even return to normal drinking. Alcoholics drink because they are alcoholics and they need to apply alcoholic fixes to their alcoholic problems.

I think the distinction can be really important because of that last part, especially if a non alcoholic starts to dominate an AA meeting with a lot of information about their experience that can be destructive to alcoholics who need help but are being convinced they don't need to make the changes they need to make. I'm also not a fan of the weird dick measuring contests that alcoholics can get into, however. And also I don't think there has been much in the way of... that being a problem here in this thread. Or explicitly, I wouldn't want to dissuade anyone who thinks they may be an alcoholic from participating in this thread (and I don't think we have a problem here with non-alcoholics who participate subverting the purpose of this thread inasmuch as it is a virtual AA meeting of sorts).

23 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

your last two are the only ones where I don't necessarily see a clear delineation, unless maybe it's between alcoholics who could still conceivably quit and harbor a desire at some level for a sober life, and those who've just absolutely given up....? The latter category maybe being at a point where doctors are like "you can't even safely detox that person" a la Townes Van Zandt at the end.

The book uses the term, and there are some that separate themselves by identifying as a ‘real alcoholic’. 
 

I think what they are getting at is that they were at the jumping off point (suicidal, can’t live with it can’t live without it), that life was even more terrible when they put down the drink, and that for them to drink is to die.

That’s not me. But I do know for a fact that I am on the spectrum of being an alcoholic. They also say that it’s a progressive disease. That means that there is a range.

What happened for me is that I was still flirting with some semblance of functionality when I began flirting with sobriety.  A big part of that was denial, of course, but I didn't feel like I was in a struggle for my life or my soul.

The first couple of failed attempts were accompanied not only with failure to stay sober, but accelerating consequences, to the point where I was more or less in a living hell.  I could no longer tolerate drinking and I could no longer tolerate just being abstinent and I was scared as hell of going through with the program.

When I embarked on my final, to this point, attempt to get and stay sober, it was with a pretty firm conviction that it was my last go-round.

5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

When I embarked on my final, to this point, attempt to get and stay sober, it was with a pretty firm conviction that it was my last go-round.

That is one of the best things I feel like I have going for me, at this point. It is not supremely sufficient-- I can't rely just on the feeling like "this is it, or bust" for me-- but it has reframed the decision-making process for me. If I pick up another drink at this point, it will only be because I don't want to be alive anymore. 

Part of the deal for chronic relapsers, at least this chronic relapser, was the idea that some bright shiny day, I really will get this thing and get sober and be the best me, but that's not here yet. Now, my view of relapse and recovery is, if I have to try to sober up again, I really don't think I will make it. I might (or sadly might not) try to get sober again, in this hypothetical, but I no longer think it's axiomatic that I'd become a success story if I had to start over from Day 1. That's partially what I've seen and learned in the program and partly an extrapolation of how much harder it got every time. 

The progressiveness for me was more along the lines of how I "managed" the disease.  I have come to believe that I was born this way as opposed to drinking my way into some dependence.   I also think that can happen but once it does, the progression then is probably the same with regard to the physical cravings and mental obsession.

My evidence for this is that after some period of sobriety and reflection, I can identify that I always had the craving.  From drink one at an early age, I was never satisfied with one drink even when I could use better judgement and stop.  I was always unsatisfied.

That's what I have come to understand as the allergy manifesting a physical craving.  Even in high school and college, I can recall often wondering things like "How can bars operate if they know that everyone who drives there will leave and be guilty of drunken driving."  It never occurred to me that one could drink and not get drunk.

Later when of age, I didn't understand the concept of a Bloody Mary for brunch and not drinking the rest of the day. 

When I was forced to do that, it started as an uncomfortable feeling and in later years progressed into a monumental feat of willpower that eventually was too much.

When I did practice moderate, social or "normie" drinking, it was a chore and not enjoyable at some core, primal level.  

I was functional, and could drink socially, but always had to finish the job at some point in the day or night.

That's when the lying and sneaking part comes in.

As the disease progressed, I had less and less ability to control the amount I consumed and when I occasionally did control the amount, the dissatisfaction with it and the restlessness increased.

Finally, I gave up any notion of controlling AND enjoying my drinking.  Those two could not coexist.

When I read the book and it talks about a hard drinker who given sufficient reason to stop or moderate can do so successfully and without wanting to blow their brains out, I picture someone who abuses alcohol, but is not prey to the allergy and mental obsession.  They dry out, clean up, and move on without the bottle resting on their shoulder whispering - "we should be drinking" 24/7/365.

Another way I try and explain it to normies (like my wife).

They for whatever reason think  I need a drink.  What they really mean is that they want a drink - the choice is implied and real for them.  They choose to take the action of drinking in moderation or to excess.

When I was to think I need a drink, I really needed to drink (not by choice) in order satisfy the mental obsession preceding and then the physical craving that started following the 1st drink.

That's rambling, but so be it.  Just my experience.

  • Popular Post

I'm really not posting for any reason, but to share, cause I find it helps me. I've posted here in the past and have lurked for a while. I've known for a long time I needed to be here, but wasn't fully ready. Last month, I was canned from work. Just one of many things I've destructed because of this disease. It was finally the thing that took me there. Within 5 days if that, I cleared out my apartment, out my belongings in storage and checked into residential treatment. I've attended meetings in the past but never fully committed to the program or realized the beauty of it and the big book. I left rehab this week and checked into a sober house. I'm jobless, near broke, with no income coming in, and falling behind on my child support, but I'm sober, I have my dog with me, I've reconnected to my higher power, am the happiest I've been in years. This is the first time I've committed fully to the program and had a sponsor and it feels so different this time. Anyhow, I'm rambling now, but I'm glad to be here.

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, DallasHorn26 said:

I'm really not posting for any reason, but to share, cause I find it helps me. I've posted here in the past and have lurked for a while. I've known for a long time I needed to be here, but wasn't fully ready. Last month, I was canned from work. Just one of many things I've destructed because of this disease. It was finally the thing that took me there. Within 5 days if that, I cleared out my apartment, out my belongings in storage and checked into residential treatment. I've attended meetings in the past but never fully committed to the program or realized the beauty of it and the big book. I left rehab this week and checked into a sober house. I'm jobless, near broke, with no income coming in, and falling behind on my child support, but I'm sober, I have my dog with me, I've reconnected to my higher power, am the happiest I've been in years. This is the first time I've committed fully to the program and had a sponsor and it feels so different this time. Anyhow, I'm rambling now, but I'm glad to be here.

 

 

 

 

Work the program, it will work for you.  I can virtually guarantee it.  By "work for you," I think you will find your situation vastly improved in a matter of months, both psychologically and in the more material realm.

Edited by TwiceHorn

I'm really not posting for any reason, but to share, cause I find it helps me. I've posted here in the past and have lurked for a while. I've known for a long time I needed to be here, but wasn't fully ready. Last month, I was canned from work. Just one of many things I've destructed because of this disease. It was finally the thing that took me there. Within 5 days if that, I cleared out my apartment, out my belongings in storage and checked into residential treatment. I've attended meetings in the past but never fully committed to the program or realized the beauty of it and the big book. I left rehab this week and checked into a sober house. I'm jobless, near broke, with no income coming in, and falling behind on my child support, but I'm sober, I have my dog with me, I've reconnected to my higher power, am the happiest I've been in years. This is the first time I've committed fully to the program and had a sponsor and it feels so different this time. Anyhow, I'm rambling now, but I'm glad to be here.
 
 
 
 
Good post. Good place to start. Those broke, busted, but newly sober days were some of the best in my life. I'm in your corner.
Good post. Good place to start. Those broke, busted, but newly sober days were some of the best in my life. I'm in your corner.
Thanks man. I've definitely enjoyed you're posts over the years.

Sent from my moto g(7) optimo (XT1952DL) using Tapatalk

4 hours ago, DallasHorn26 said:

I'm really not posting for any reason, but to share, cause I find it helps me. I've posted here in the past and have lurked for a while. I've known for a long time I needed to be here, but wasn't fully ready. Last month, I was canned from work. Just one of many things I've destructed because of this disease. It was finally the thing that took me there. Within 5 days if that, I cleared out my apartment, out my belongings in storage and checked into residential treatment. I've attended meetings in the past but never fully committed to the program or realized the beauty of it and the big book. I left rehab this week and checked into a sober house. I'm jobless, near broke, with no income coming in, and falling behind on my child support, but I'm sober, I have my dog with me, I've reconnected to my higher power, am the happiest I've been in years. This is the first time I've committed fully to the program and had a sponsor and it feels so different this time. Anyhow, I'm rambling now, but I'm glad to be here.

 

 

 

 

Godspeed.  Work it.

I spoke w/my daughter today and she revealed husband is in treatment for alcohol. It's been a couple months and then he'll go to another situation and earn right to come home.  Longterm program, which I would believe is good. No kids, I think she still loves him. We're not close and I had no idea. He had lost his job, I had chalked it up to Virus. 

Just thinking how hard it must be as an adult  with freedom of movement to kick this to the curb. My younger daughter went through drug issues in hs, but we were able to put her in a program and school that completely cut off her peer group and dominated her free time which was probably the most helpful thing in changing her mentality. 

Tearing up.

  • Popular Post

In pondering life this morning...then opening up my normal threads on here....this thread, the guitar and the dog threads are about the only places where people are civil to each other.  It makes me feel content and proud to be a guitar playing, dog owning, alcoholic.   

2 hours ago, hullabelew said:

It makes me feel content and proud to be a guitar playing, dog owning, alcoholic.   

If I can learn to stop peeking elsewhere on this board, I'll be happier. Otherwise I'm out of here.

  • Popular Post

I have been sober 10 months today.

 

God, I offer myself to Thee To build with me
and to do with me as Thou wilt.
Relieve me of the bondage of self,
that I may better do Thy will.
Take away my difficulties,
that victory over them may bear witness
to those I would help of Thy Power,
Thy Love, and Thy Way of life.
May I do Thy will always!
Amen 

2 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

I have been sober 10 months today.

 

God, I offer myself to Thee To build with me
and to do with me as Thou wilt.
Relieve me of the bondage of self,
that I may better do Thy will.
Take away my difficulties,
that victory over them may bear witness
to those I would help of Thy Power,
Thy Love, and Thy Way of life.
May I do Thy will always!
Amen 

Outstanding @Bash Riprock

I have been to 8 treatment centers and at least 12 detox centers. If you or a loved one have tried numerous Treatment centers I would like to recommend this treatment center. 

https://belairerecovery.com/

Great place. Excellent trauma therapist. She has done numerous Ted Talks on recovery and Trauma. This place saved my life, 

So…after in-patient, I enrolled in an IOP run by a different company.  It was perfect for me and I met several people who I talk to on a daily basis.  Dan is one guy in particular.  We got along great, right off the bat.  He has helped me immensely and I like to think I haven’t hampered him.  Our families get along great…he and his wife are younger than us and they have a 5 yr old boy.  We kayak and play guitars together…hang out, go out to eat….good clean fun.  I helped his wife find a new job when she decided to go back to work after taking time off when they had the baby.  Dan had really helped me get into meditation.    He even runs several meditation groups for the IOP now…just on his own, and has started a podcast that he and another patient hope to develop into something much more.

Little background.  He did 6 years on a fed drug charge (about 12-15 years ago) when he got caught up in a sting that resulted in stupid mandatory minimum jail term.  The judge apologized to him.  He did his time…..then did well for a while, then relapsed once….back on local probation in metro about 3-4 years ago.  Did well, relapse…car wreck that should have killed him, new drug charge in a different (remote) part of the state.  This is what caused him to be at the IOP when I met him a year ago.  This case apparently had its own legal issue (drugs at the scene of the crash/in his system) but would also likely trigger a probation violation of the metro case from 3-4 years ago.   He has been hoping that the new case would end up in something less than a year…said he would be happy with that…and whatever happened with the outstanding probation, he was good with that.  He was completely at ease with whatever was coming his way.

Fucking mandatory terms are bullshit.  He supports his mother who lives next door to him, pays for both houses that he completely remodeled.   After the new charge, he stepped down from his position on the board of the company he works for and has been installing tile and on work jobs.  He has some other income from a residential rental.    

Just got off the phone with him.  New case, prosecutor isn’t budging….10 years, 3 to serve.   

I am completely devastated, and I can’t imagine what he and his wife and mother are going through.    He is about the nicest, most laid back, thoughtful person I know, and a lot of my recovery is due to his presence in my life.   Incredible song writer and singer, talented and creative construction guy…EVERYONE he meets is instantly drawn to him.  Thanks for letting me babble and ramble. 

Thank you for sharing that, Hullabelew.  Wreckage of the past is so arbitrary sometimes.

Staying sober and helping other alcoholics is how I pay my debt for my own unpunished felonious behavior.  I'm real sorry about your buddy's circumstances.

 

I had stayed sober for 90 days and lost it this week. Wife left town and I decided to drink. Back to day 2 now. This shit is hard.

i know from you all it’s possible. Did the meeting northland this morning (virtual).  That’s great group of people. 
 

10 minutes ago, hornbri said:

i know from you all it’s possible

You know from you it's possible.  Putting 90 days together is no small feat.  Put your sober head on the pillow tonight and then do it again tomorrow.

I had stayed sober for 90 days and lost it this week. Wife left town and I decided to drink. Back to day 2 now. This shit is hard. i know from you all it’s possible. Did the meeting northland this morning (virtual).  That’s great group of people. 

 

 

Just keep coming back, relapse isn't mandatory but it sure is useful. And now you've identified a reservation. 

MY grand sponsor and I were in the Northland virtual speaker meeting last night, speaker was a lady with 48 years.

 

Next friday night the 19th my dear friend Heidie Jo M. From Brady tx is telling her story in the Northland zoom room. She is the most spirited woman I've ever met. Beautiful. Profane. Hilarious. Married to a rancher that gave her a herd of horses and the time to work the steps with countless women. You should come, its gonna be a hoot.

 

Thanks for your honesty, that's all it takes. Rigorous honesty. The willingness will come when its time.

 

I didnt want to stop drinking, I just wanted the unmanageability in my life to stop. Ah, but I was powerless over the drink and what I did when I was loaded.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, hornbri said:

I had stayed sober for 90 days and lost it this week. Wife left town and I decided to drink. Back to day 2 now. This shit is hard.

i know from you all it’s possible. Did the meeting northland this morning (virtual).  That’s great group of people. 
 

Great job with honesty about it and getting back on the horse.  As bear says, relapses aren't mandatory, but it's a very popular "option."  When you are honest about it and don't let it spiral out of control, you can put it to work for you as a learning experience.

On 6/10/2020 at 11:17 AM, hullabelew said:

So…after in-patient, I enrolled in an IOP run by a different company.  It was perfect for me and I met several people who I talk to on a daily basis.  Dan is one guy in particular.  We got along great, right off the bat.  He has helped me immensely and I like to think I haven’t hampered him.  Our families get along great…he and his wife are younger than us and they have a 5 yr old boy.  We kayak and play guitars together…hang out, go out to eat….good clean fun.  I helped his wife find a new job when she decided to go back to work after taking time off when they had the baby.  Dan had really helped me get into meditation.    He even runs several meditation groups for the IOP now…just on his own, and has started a podcast that he and another patient hope to develop into something much more.

Little background.  He did 6 years on a fed drug charge (about 12-15 years ago) when he got caught up in a sting that resulted in stupid mandatory minimum jail term.  The judge apologized to him.  He did his time…..then did well for a while, then relapsed once….back on local probation in metro about 3-4 years ago.  Did well, relapse…car wreck that should have killed him, new drug charge in a different (remote) part of the state.  This is what caused him to be at the IOP when I met him a year ago.  This case apparently had its own legal issue (drugs at the scene of the crash/in his system) but would also likely trigger a probation violation of the metro case from 3-4 years ago.   He has been hoping that the new case would end up in something less than a year…said he would be happy with that…and whatever happened with the outstanding probation, he was good with that.  He was completely at ease with whatever was coming his way.

Fucking mandatory terms are bullshit.  He supports his mother who lives next door to him, pays for both houses that he completely remodeled.   After the new charge, he stepped down from his position on the board of the company he works for and has been installing tile and on work jobs.  He has some other income from a residential rental.    

Just got off the phone with him.  New case, prosecutor isn’t budging….10 years, 3 to serve.   

I am completely devastated, and I can’t imagine what he and his wife and mother are going through.    He is about the nicest, most laid back, thoughtful person I know, and a lot of my recovery is due to his presence in my life.   Incredible song writer and singer, talented and creative construction guy…EVERYONE he meets is instantly drawn to him.  Thanks for letting me babble and ramble. 

Yeah, that's one of the more heartbreaking aspects of recovery.  I have known quite a few people with good recovery doing good things that had to go down for a while.  It's what has made me a criminal justice reform maniac.

1 hour ago, hornbri said:

I had stayed sober for 90 days and lost it this week. Wife left town and I decided to drink. Back to day 2 now. This shit is hard.

i know from you all it’s possible. Did the meeting northland this morning (virtual).  That’s great group of people. 
 

I’m glad you’re back.  The obsession of the mind is a bitch.  I only speak from my experience, but the freedom doesn’t come from the meetings.  They are vital and they help, but the freedom from the mental obsession come from working the steps with a sponsor and then working with others.  
 

The originators of this way of life didn’t have meetings, and certainly not like we do.  They had each other and the steps which they did with haste. 
 

My personal observation is that my sponsees who slip up are all “fixin to” work the steps where as my guys who dive into the process right away seldom if ever consider drinking and when they do they have the power to let that thought pass.

I pray nothing but the best for you.  You CAN stay sober one day at a time... you’ve already done it.  Just keep adding days and grab some power through the steps. 

Get sober for yourself and no one else, that was told to me early on and I'm thankful for it. Have a mission and go for it. My mission became the first clear cut goal I ever had in my life. When I went off to college I didn't know what to major in, when I dropped out I didn't know what line of work or life to live. For me, my mission became a peace of mind and no matter who enters or leaves my life, I'm always on that mission.  

Find yours, be it the same, similar or different and stick to it,  you will be amazed to look back. 

3 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Next friday night the 19th my dear friend Heidie Jo M. From Brady tx is telling her story in the Northland zoom room. She is the most spirited woman I've ever met. Beautiful. Profane. Hilarious. Married to a rancher that gave her a herd of horses and the time to work the steps with countless women. You should come, its gonna be a hoot.

Thanks for the support from everyone.  I will make sure to hear from Heide Jo as well. How much we can change is crazy, I am looking forward to listening to a sober woman, on a Friday night. 

18 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

I didnt want to stop drinking, I just wanted the unmanageability in my life to stop.

when did the urge to drink finally leave you?  like really leave you.  I’m almost at 14 months going on 18 years and I’m not sure I’ve ever really not wanted to drink.  to be honest, these days I think it’s the fear of the unmanageability combined with the fact that I’m older now that is keeping me from buying a bottle through this fucking virus.  I am more conscious of the need to actively hold my life together than I was when I was 25. 

So fucked up. Got the text and call tonight while thinking it was a goodnight to relax and forget about all the shit going on.

My uncle finally succumbed to this unreal disease. I visited this thread many times to try and understand....posted once about him...I’m still in disbelief. The guy taught me so much when I was young...my dad was in Vietnam and my moms brothers became my other fathers...this guy had the biggest heart and we made each other laugh until we could breathe.

Im at a loss. But I appreciate the courage and battle all of you, and I, face with this shit.

Im still a student and the lessons are getting harder.

On 6/4/2020 at 7:42 AM, hullabelew said:

In pondering life this morning...then opening up my normal threads on here....this thread, the guitar and the dog threads are about the only places where people are civil to each other.  It makes me feel content and proud to be a guitar playing, dog owning, alcoholic.   

I got this trifecta, too.

And the other one: depression, anxiety, and addiction.

Playing guitar sober next to a dog is better.

9 hours ago, futureman said:

when did the urge to drink finally leave you?  like really leave you.  I’m almost at 14 months going on 18 years and I’m not sure I’ve ever really not wanted to drink.  to be honest, these days I think it’s the fear of the unmanageability combined with the fact that I’m older now that is keeping me from buying a bottle through this fucking virus.  I am more conscious of the need to actively hold my life together than I was when I was 25. 

If you work the steps, it will leave.  

I think most of us view(ed) it as some sort of solution to something, some kind of problem.  Once you start working the steps (it never ends, really, and it may take a couple of passes before you get really thorough) whatever problems you have don't seem to require any external solution anymore.  It doesn't mean they don't bother you some, but not to the extent that getting boiled as an owl seems like an appropriate or desirable thing to do.  You don't even have to balance positives in your life with the negatives that you know will ensue from drinking.  Drinking just becomes as unnatural as sticking your dick in a meat grinder.

Edited by TwiceHorn

9 hours ago, Tailgate said:

So fucked up. Got the text and call tonight while thinking it was a goodnight to relax and forget about all the shit going on.

My uncle finally succumbed to this unreal disease. I visited this thread many times to try and understand....posted once about him...I’m still in disbelief. The guy taught me so much when I was young...my dad was in Vietnam and my moms brothers became my other fathers...this guy had the biggest heart and we made each other laugh until we could breathe.

Im at a loss. But I appreciate the courage and battle all of you, and I, face with this shit.

Im still a student and the lessons are getting harder.

 I'm sorry for your loss, we all know how ugly this disease is, how it drags everyone down. I will say we are students of life, for life, each and every one of us, a drunk, addict or neither, we are all students,  and while this lesson is a hard one to take, they aren't always this hard, that things do get better.  Try to smile, even if its a forced smile, something comes from that.

21 hours ago, futureman said:

when did the urge to drink finally leave you?  like really leave you.  I’m almost at 14 months going on 18 years and I’m not sure I’ve ever really not wanted to drink.  to be honest, these days I think it’s the fear of the unmanageability combined with the fact that I’m older now that is keeping me from buying a bottle through this fucking virus.  I am more conscious of the need to actively hold my life together than I was when I was 25. 

I'm in a similar situation at the moment-- it's not that I want a drink per se. I don't have any illusions about it being fun, and I can't get oblivious enough to not realize what a horrible mistake I'm making so there's no relief there either. But between COVID, the race riots, and being laid off from a tech job, my stress level is as high as it's been since I got out of rehab in June of 2018. I don't sit around thinking "man a drink would sure help" or "I wish I could get drunk", but I'm in this perpetual stress state where little things like my three-year-old not doing what she's told just push me into this stratospheric level of anger and frustration and the thought of a drink pops into my head. Mix in what TexArcher was talking about, and I feel pretty combustible right now. 

And I'm with you, more than anything else, it's fear keeping me in line: the fear of returning unmanageability, the fear of how hard it would be to sober up again, etc.

But, I really do not think any of this, or even all of it simultaneously, would feel as insurmountable as it feels right now IF I were working the program. But thanks to the COVID shutdowns, my options there are Zoom meetings and phone calls, both of which I fucking hate. I don't hate 'em more than relapse, but goddamnit if I have to listen the audio pixelization of Zoom trying to manage thirty people mumbling the Serenity Prayer one more time, I'm going to go nuts.

There's just a lot of anger right now. I am having to learn, painfully, how to live in anger and move past it without trying to drink it away.

11 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

If you work the steps, it will leave.  

I think most of us view(ed) it as some sort of solution to something, some kind of problem.  Once you start working the steps (it never ends, really, and it may take a couple of passes before you get really thorough) whatever problems you have don't seem to require any external solution anymore.  It doesn't mean they don't bother you some, but not to the extent that getting boiled as an owl seems like an appropriate or desirable thing to do.  You don't even have to balance positives in your life with the negatives that you know will ensue from drinking.  Drinking just becomes as unnatural as sticking your dick in a meat grinder.

Agreed. To me, relapse over time went from flipping a light switch on or off, to there being an entire house's worth of breakers that have to be flipped. Right now, really being outside the program, I'm barely setting them back before something trips them again. I'm not close to relapsing, but I'm much closer than I've been at any point since June of 2018, because I'm angry.

Edited by SwanderedTalent

and I should point out, at the most base level, my anger is basically "not getting what I want". And that's why the alcoholic part of my brain thinks drinking is such a fine solution to anger, because for me, drinking is the repeated process of "what I want is a drink / I have a drink in my hand / I just drank it / I got what I wanted!!!! / now what I want is another drink". 

In that scenario, I'm estranged from my wife and daughter and locked in a dark hotel room with the curtains closed and bombed on Skol vodka at 11 in the morning. But I'm "getting what I want" so there's no anger and that is a huge relief to my brain. 

when did the urge to drink finally leave you?  like really leave you.  I’m almost at 14 months going on 18 years and I’m not sure I’ve ever really not wanted to drink.  to be honest, these days I think it’s the fear of the unmanageability combined with the fact that I’m older now that is keeping me from buying a bottle through this fucking virus.  I am more conscious of the need to actively hold my life together than I was when I was 25. 
I cant really pinpoint that, but according to the Big Book the 5th step really helps the urge to be lifted. I can say that when I'm sharing the unvarnished truth about myself and my relationship with alcohol and hear myself or read my writing then it seems absurd. All the descriptions in the Big Book make perfect sense to me.

My separation from alcohol, though, was abrupt, one day I couldn't imagine life without it, and a few days later I couldn't imagine life with it.

When it became my idea that i could lead a sober successful life then it crowded out the urge to drink.

I'm an all or nothing kind of guy - whether I'm drinking or not. I just dont seem to have a "low or medium" setting, just "balls to the wall."

Another dude from my rehab stint passed away.  That is 7:  5 ODs, 1 gun shot and now this one.  Those are just the ones I know of...I'm sure there are more.   What makes this one more bizarre is he worked there, in the financial aid office.  Just about the jolliest, nicest dude I've met.  ALWAYS had a smile on his face.  Just another sign that this shit is more powerful than just about anything.  Dude sees people on their worst days as they crawl or are dragged in the door.  And he saw us as we left...with a glint of hope in our eyes.  Yet still, he succumbed.  

4 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

curtains closed and bombed on Skol vodka at 11 in the morning

haha, fuck, man.  I can relate to that.  jesus. 

Edited by futureman

39 minutes ago, hullabelew said:

Another dude from my rehab stint passed away.  That is 7:  5 ODs, 1 gun shot and now this one.  Those are just the ones I know of...I'm sure there are more.   What makes this one more bizarre is he worked there, in the financial aid office.  Just about the jolliest, nicest dude I've met.  ALWAYS had a smile on his face.  Just another sign that this shit is more powerful than just about anything.  Dude sees people on their worst days as they crawl or are dragged in the door.  And he saw us as we left...with a glint of hope in our eyes.  Yet still, he succumbed.  

sorry to hear it. 

12 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

and I should point out, at the most base level, my anger is basically "not getting what I want". And that's why the alcoholic part of my brain thinks drinking is such a fine solution to anger, because for me, drinking is the repeated process of "what I want is a drink / I have a drink in my hand / I just drank it / I got what I wanted!!!! / now what I want is another drink". 

In that scenario, I'm estranged from my wife and daughter and locked in a dark hotel room with the curtains closed and bombed on Skol vodka at 11 in the morning. But I'm "getting what I want" so there's no anger and that is a huge relief to my brain. 

Yeah, that strikes at what I have concluded is kind of the heart of the matter, at least for me and those that I am close enough to in the program to have shared my experience with fairly deeply, to include threadmates here if that's not too presumptuous. 

The self-will run riot or what I call almost total inward-dwellingness.

Somehow, addicts get into this "I" loop.  "I'm not happy."  Various matters, to include damn near everything, "aren't going the way I want them to."  "I, I, I, I."  Well, one thing I can do that is sort of rebellious, destructive, and all about me is get fucked up.  You come to realize that you can't or aren't controlling anything in your life except how fucked up you are, and then you reach the point where you can't control that either.  

Which is why the higher power concept seems so necessary for many:  to fully acknowledge that whatever that power may be, "I" ain't it.  "I do not, in fact, run this shit."  And then the working with others to keep the focus off oneself and reinforce the principles by seeing them work or fail in others. And going through the resentments/amends things allows you to accept yourself and not struggle so much with everything; that is, the fact that you don't control everything is ok, in fact, it's better than ok, it's great and is not a poor reflection on yourself.

14 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

allows you to accept yourself and not struggle so much with everything; that is, the fact that you don't control everything is ok, in fact, it's better than ok, it's great and is not a poor reflection on yourself.

This bit right here is the very basis of everything for me right now.  I was trying to explain it to someone recently and you nailed it right here. Thanks.

Powerful thoughts from Twice.  Well said.

My bottom line is that all I can control are my actions and reactions to events surrounding me.

When problems come up, I can work on the problem or I can work on me.  The problems never get any better when I bear down on them.  What does get better, if and when I choose to let go, are my actions and reactions. 

I can't re-hit any shot I've already taken and sometimes even my best shots land in a divot through no fault of my own, but I can do the next right action based on where I find myself in this exact moment.

I'm so far from perfect at it, but when I'm mindful of it good things happen.  Bad things happen too, but I can find myself in less dis-ease (disease) if I'm focused on right here and right now.

For me, it was little things at first.  I'd get wound up over politics and social drama.  My sponsor suggested that I quit listening to political radio and stop watching the 24 hour news cycle.  In short order, the political turmoil seemed to improve.  Intellectually I knew it was still going on, but it didn't affect me as much and seemed to be better when I didn't allow my mind to participate in something over which I had no control.  Most of my life's problems die of neglect.

The book says when I am disturbed, something is wrong with me.  That's a tough pill to swallow at first but it becomes more palatable and eventually it becomes freeing when I look inward instead of outward.  What am I scared of?  What am I worried about losing or not getting?  Am I OK, right here and right now?

Most of the time I suck at it, but I'm at least mindful and when the gut tightens enough, I'll say "oh yeah....this feeling is my own doing".  The event or circumstance is not my doing but the reaction to it is. 

If I start whining to my sponsor he tends to remind me that if I find myself in a world full of assholes and confrontations, then I'm the common denominator in each equation.

 

Sorry to hear about that Swandered. I'm in not quite the same boat, but we're expecting another 15% cut next week when I'm going to be out of office. I was just thinking about how I should remind my boss that I'll be out in case he needs to fire me. Anxiety inducing, but the thought of drinking didn't occur.  I remember the first time that that happened - trivial bump that would have made me crave strongly (in this case, an argument about tacos) and I didn't even think about it. That was probably 8 months into sobriety, and of course I did plenty of thinking about drinking after that and every now and then I get a weird strong urge. But they get more and more just... nostalgic, like a strong memory from a past life.

 

Keep your head up in the job search. It's probably always demoralizing, but it's I think maybe especially fucked up now in terms of... jobs that are posted but don't actually exist, or a large pool of people needing work, etc. I've started looking, and it really sucks to get back a "we've decided to not move forward" for whatever reason, especially if you have all these applications out there silent. It'll be ok.

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God, grant me the serentiy to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

My name is Zach and I'm an alcoholic.

I've posted some stories here before - including about multiple PI arrests and totalling my car drunk a couple of years ago. None of those stuck with me the way that I needed them to, unfortunately. I began to relate more and more to step 1 sometime in the last year but never did anything about it. An excuse I particularly enjoyed was "Well shit, I'm an alcoholic - nothing to do about it but manage the best I can and have a couple more drinks".

On April 24th, 2020, after 2 visists to the ER back to back for cocaine, xanax and booze induced severe panic attacks (including showing up the 2nd time with a blood pressure of 160/105) I finally came to understand and accept step 1.

I had gone through a major depressive, borderline suicidal, phase after dropping out of grad school last fall due to mental health reasons. I was able to find a decent job to lift myself out of it, appease my parents, pay my rent and get things back on the right track despite having not worked for 5 months (business degrees from SMU do help - even with a middling GPA), but pretty soon started working from home for my new employer due to COVID. I had been clean of xanax for 6 months or so - but my anxiety hit with a renewed vengance after the sudden change of going from being around smiling faces and structure that I had long been missing back to sitting at home all day in the apartment that had intoxicating smells and morbid memories seeped into the walls that whispered thoughts of self harm.

As the world went to shit and my life along with it, I reached out to my old supplier for some xanax that my disease had convinced me was of necessity due to the circumstances.

My stimulus check hit early, I had filed my taxes in January or so. I wasn't spending money on lyft and uber (which was my transportation since I don't have a car right now) and extra cash in my bank account started piling up. Sitting there, with a semblance of innocence that my diseased mind clawed at to take advantage of. Still working from home, I had a decent paying job that was easy enough, and as a young single male generally comfortable with the simple things in life  nor crippled by debt - Donald's $1,200 was like nitrous oxide pumped into an old yet potent tank of gasoline.

My anxiety was so unattended, unaddressed, ignored - that it got the best of me despite the warm comfort of disassociation  gifted once again by Big Pharma's segmented, rectangular shaped blight on society. In an effort to drown it out further, I began to drink earlier and earlier in the day. And if you give a mouse a cookie - as in, if I was going to drink at noon to take the edge off and subdue any lingering cabin fever - might as well get a sack too to at least get a little work done (this is especially dangerous when you're in Dallas and have a coke dealer that delivers cheap, face-numbing cocaine to your doorstep within 20 minutes).

I've had issues with alcohol - everyone in my life knows this, but in varying degrees based on the information I have presented or withheld or what they have been exposed to as a witness to my insanity. I thought I needed to quit drinking after certain incidents years in the past - but was always able to manage just well enough to scratch by while being a 50-60 drinks a week type drinker. I could still attend family functions, I could hide it if I needed to, and shut off from those that I truly needed in my life in order to stuff my diseased and aching id to some dusty enclave within my conciousness.

A veil of irony throughout my use is that I actually didn't try cocaine until graduating college (despite joining a fraternity at one of the wealthiest party schools in the nation where it flowed like coors light laden piss into a trough).

I liked it pretty well when I was introduced in a cordial, hey I'd like you to meet someone manner. By the 3rd or 4th time my disease was put into the next gear. Within the past year my cravings for alcohol turned into cravings for cocaethylene. If I touched coke I instantly needed booze. If I got drunk enough I started looking for cocaine like a blue-balled, polo-black -soaked clubgoer perusing the crowd of somewhat acceptable women that might him stick it in them at 3 in the morning. This of course, ad nasuem, propagated countless mornings in which I soon realized in a state of self-dissilutionment that I had called 15 or so people looking for something the night before - and usually 12 of them people I shouldn't have called, hadn't spoken with in months. The worst example was when out of booze, but not out of coke (but what's the difference? You can't create a painting without both the oil and the canvis) I reached out to a high schooler that I used to tutor in the middle of the night to see if he could snag me something from his dad's liquor cabinet.

Right after COVID hit my demon really let itself out of the box of all human vices. I was doing xanax all day, the 2 weeks prior to going to treatment I had probably burned $500 in coke, and was having 20 drink sessions every couple of days. 

On one Thursday, I checked out of work at 2 in the afternoon. Started boozing, blowing down, playing a new game I had got into, popping more xanax whenever I needed to lessen the edge. From Thursday at around 6 pm until that Saturday at 2ish in the afternoon I didn't leave my computer. I played my game - further injecting myself with an original addiction on top of the newfound concoctions I was destroying myself with - for no less than 43 hours straight to the tune of 30 beers or seltzers or whatever I was drinking and probably at least an 8 ball of cocaine. Never ate a bite. Never left the house. My beer was delivered, I had all the xanax I could ever need, my dealer knew where I lived and would come drop off from just around the corner. Nearly passing out at my desk, I retired, bringing with me auditory hallucinations of a virtual escapist landscape I had bored into my skull.

The insanity of it - the insanity we all suffer from and carry with us collectively - was that that wasn't my rock bottom to get my ass into treatment. I had more nights similar to that. I had started dealing xanax with a friend on a crazy profit margin (300-400% per pill), got really messed up, manic, and crazy one night and thought about buying a gun without a serial number to start trapping (Speaking of insanity - this was while I was still holding down a $45k/yr job). I stole a bottle of liquor and some weed (I don't even like weed) from my best friend - a friend that would bail me out of jail if it took his life saving  to do it - on a night where he passed out early on his couch. Another night, my veins throbbing with cocaine and vodka, I wandered around  the streets in my neighborhood (carrying a fifth of vodka with me) to find someone to talk to at 3 in the morning and had a passing conversation with some schizophrenic homeless person under a nearby DART station. Miraculously my higher power continued to keep giving me chances I didn't deserve. Keep me out of jail. Keep me alive. Keep me from utter destitution.

None of this truly scared me. Probably because i had so heavily masked it with invasive chemicals to the point where I forgot what fear was. I knew I was powerless but my spirit was still not willing. My physical and mental health was beaten into and sealed shut in an alien oblivion that only my disease and demons could have led me to.

And then, one night, (and as someone that has had multiple, multiple  - 10/10 sweating, chest throbbing panic attacks) I had "the" one. My heartbeat felt like it was doing a scat jazz performance. I felt like I was going to pass out or die right then and there. I checked into the ER. My blood pressure was off the charts. I REALLY felt like my heart was going to fail. It's doubtful that I would have died that night - but it rewoke something powerful inside me. Not an anxiety coping mechanism of "okay I need to calm down, this will pass" but a raw, visceral, spiritual fear of dying. 

They pumped me full of saline. They did an EKG and Echo. All normal. The doctor that discharged me (and I will never forget this for as long as I live) clasped his hands as if in prayer, looked at me in the eyes and said "You are really really young. Please. Get some help" as if he was looking into the eyes in the midst an intervention with someone in his own family.

I walked home from the ER for the 3rd time in just a matter of weeks. Distraught, ashamed, self-pitied, upset, hopeless, utterly lost, but... somehow grateful for the sunlight and air and a reminder from somewhere that I can't describe that this is the life we are given and in this life there are moments worth living for and you can do anything you want but you damn well sure not give up until the bell rings.

That's when.

That's when my integrity and faith and humility and guilt - guilt that I had never come to terms with - was defribrilated through my nervous system so I could begin to rediscover a nascent - but not yet lost - glimmer behind my eyes. A glimmer of earnestness. A glimmer of life. A glimmer of hope and change and the future and all those things bigger than me. That's when I shot my long repressed faith - faith in life beyond self, faith in childhood dreams, faith that the night might grow darkest just before the dawn - and shot my resolve and ambition that I used to carry as a wet-behind-the-ears 18 year old on my way to college deep into the part of my being (which a Father of the Virgin Mary might call your soul) like an epi pen full of adrenaline. That's when I realized I had been a selfish, inconsiderate, hedonistic-driven shell of myself fueled by duct-taped schemes that could no longer distinguish between who I used to be, who I had became, who I was, and who I might never get to be.

I sat in bed and cried. I texted my mom and told her I needed her to come get me. She asked what was wrong, and the three words became the beginning of a new chapter for me:

I. Need. Help.

 

Thanks for letting me share. I have some more, and actually ended up drunk last night after 50 days clean, but I woke up today to once again take it one day at a time.

 

Edited by ztejas

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