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Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

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1 minute ago, mdmost said:

Of course you don't. It doesn't fit your worldview. 

Or also anything I've ever heard from any players, students, alumni, etc. 

Shit you didn’t think it was racist until this afternoon.

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  • Considering it is sung to the tune of "I've Been Working on the Railroad", shouldn't the Chinese students be the ones with the problem?

  • I'm a Trump hating liberal and hope the Republican party withers and dies before my children are of voting age.  That being said....  The song isn't racist. The bullshit 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon

  • crash_davis
    crash_davis

    I don't like some if the demands but I'm not a black athlete representing the University of Texas. I don't know what it's like to deal with the fucked up system that they've grown up under.  Fuck

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I blame you Tom, you fuck!   If you were leading this group their time and energy would be occupied and going in a direction that they feel is making change.  Instead we have left them to their stupid fucking ideas and new interpretation of the song.     

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't find that significant at all. 

Maybe someone should ask somebody, because in my mind that's the most significant tie to past racist culture. 

Also, I've Been Working on the Railroad isn't "pretty racist". In its initial form it was racist as fuck. 

11 minutes ago, Xian said:

I must say. This has been a very good negotiation tactic. Everyone is willing to give them everything they want outright but the song 

They'll probably get the song, too.

The University of Texas is more than a collection of buildings. The values of the University and what they symbolize is what matters not some fucking song, not a name on a building or a statue. The University has to stand for every one of its students and faculty not just a select few. To those that fear and lament change I will simply say the pride and winning tradition of The University of Texas will not be entrusted to the weak or the timid. 

5 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

Acho being a drama queen, what does them being required to sing the song look like exactly? What are the repercussions if they don’t? If there is or ever has been any it’s fucking bullshit and that should absolutely be done away with.

i think the degree to which a student athlete's life dreams and aspirations can be shattered by vigorous enforcement of team rules while they play for free as the economic engine for an eleventy billion dollar enterprise is something like "high"

1 minute ago, maninblack said:

Or also anything I've ever heard from any players, students, alumni, etc. 

Shit you didn’t think it was racist until this afternoon.

I am amazed that no one was apparently paying attention a couple of years ago when this whole minstrel show thing came up. It was a pretty big deal at the time. Of course, now that the athletes are involved instead of just some regular students, people are hearing it. 

Maybe that's the point...

1 minute ago, maninblack said:

Or also anything I've ever heard from any players, students, alumni, etc. 

Shit you didn’t think it was racist until this afternoon.

Yes, because I honestly did not know about the historical context of it till today. 

9 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

Acho being a drama queen, what does them being required to sing the song look like exactly? What are the repercussions if they don’t? If there is or ever has been any it’s fucking bullshit and that should absolutely be done away with.

Do you not remember how it was a major "outrage" story when Wickline didn't stay for the Eyes?

2 minutes ago, TornACL said:

Maybe someone should ask somebody, because in my mind that's the most significant tie to past racist culture. 

Also, I've Been Working on the Railroad isn't "pretty racist". In its initial form it was racist as fuck. 

It seems pretty attenuated to me.  Whether it's more attenuated than the apparent fact that The Eyes was introduced to students at a minstrel show is debatable.

Yes, I’m sure the players didn’t want to sing the song because it was racist and not because they’ve lost 60 games the last 10 years. 

1 minute ago, mdmost said:

Do you not remember how it was a major "outrage" story when Wickline didn't stay for the Eyes?

*Wokeline

31 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

goddamn liberal arts professors trying to play historian. get a real degree

I have a humanities degree. Even back when I graduated it was well on its way to devolving into the garbage it has become. 

Just now, workswithseed said:

What happens if the athletes want it  brought back?

There's no going back

It’s looking like the Eyes will be gone/or changed into something completely different. For the better part of my adult life when I’ve attended the game, win/lose, I stayed to sing it to show solidarity with the players. That won’t change no matter what I am singing. Having said that it would be nice if we could win more. And win like our conference and shit. 

11 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't find that significant at all.   The Eyes of Texas itself is completely devoid of racist content.

Sons of Eire disagree.

1 minute ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

I have a humanities degree. 

Goddammit my irony meter just broke. 

9 minutes ago, RollLeft said:

I blame you Tom, you fuck!   If you were leading this group their time and energy would be occupied and going in a direction that they feel is making change.  Instead we have left them to their stupid fucking ideas and new interpretation of the song.     

 

Sock for @Hank Scorpio ???

4 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Yes, because I honestly did not know about the historical context of it till today. 

I didn't either. It's almost like I've had the privilege of ignoring uncomfortable things for most of my life.

3 minutes ago, Nope said:

*Wokeline

WHAT'S NEXT? WE GONNA CHANGE THE NAME OF THE TEAM TO THE TEXAS WOKEHORNS???

We should replace the Eyes with Country Roads and thereby declare war on West Virginia University. 

35 minutes ago, victory88 said:

It’s a song, who gives a fuck.  I’m not the one sweating blood and tears working out, putting my body through hell to play.  If the players find it racist and don’t want to sing it, then we should respect that.  If the university decides to distance itself, then that’s fine too.  
 

Do you guys realize the bad pub and negative recruiting we’ll have to deal with if the school doesn’t comply? Good luck getting black high school football players to come to a school that won’t listen to their own black student athletes.  Imagine Herman having a recruiting event and Sterns, Ossai, Eagles are telling recruits the administration won’t remove an arguably racist song and listen to their players.  

 

The University of Texas is a school that celebrates all races, genders, and religions.  We strive for excellence and making this world better.  Fuck the song... change it.  Maybe we’ll start a new tradition and actually fucking win.... 

I give a fuck, and so do my two girls that graduated from UT. There are different opinions on the subject. Disagreeing with the opposition doesn’t make them stupid or wrong. We are going to have to agree to disagree 

5 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Yes, I’m sure the players didn’t want to sing the song because it was racist and not because they’ve lost 60 games the last 10 years. 

I thought this was hyperbole, stupidly researched it to verify. Motherfuck, what happened to us.

Just now, Helobious said:

I thought this was hyperbole, stupidly researched it to verify. Motherfuck, what happened to us.

Mack Brown got lazy.

10 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

The University of Texas is more than a collection of buildings. The values of the University and what they symbolize is what matters not some fucking song, not a name on a building or a statue. The University has to stand for every one of its students and faculty not just a select few. To those that fear and lament change I will simply say the pride and winning tradition of The University of Texas will not be entrusted to the weak or the timid. 

So if the faculty and majority of students and alum want to keep the song do we get to keep it?

2 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

I didn't either. It's almost like I've had the privilege of ignoring uncomfortable things for most of my life.

Wait until you hear about how LBJ treated black people.  Or slaves owned by a whole lot of the founders of our state and country.  

49 minutes ago, Let 'Em Hang said:

Well, as a fan of Longhorn football since 1967 and a contributor to UT Athletics, time to say goodbye.  Been real and I have to say I'll miss it.

And to the football team:

 

GO FUCK YOURSELVES

This aint the airport you dont have to announce your departure...

 

p.s. I for one am glad your are leaving... one less piece of shit associated with Texas.

4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Wait until you hear about how LBJ treated black people.  Or slaves owned by a whole lot of the founders of our state and country.  

I get that it's a complicated history. The issue at hand isn't particularly nuanced.

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1 hour ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

On the one hand, the song doesn't seem that offensive to me even given its origins. On the other hand, my relatives and I haven't been systematically killed and oppressed by our government for centuries because of the color of our skin. I really can't say what would upset me if that were the case. I'm all for the administration hearing the athletes out across the board. Ultimately, it's just a song.     

 

31 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think it is more like it was a song to be performed by students at some student production.

It so happened that the "premier" student production at the time took the form of a minstrel show.

That is a highly regrettable coincidence, but not much more than a coincidence because the song itself is utterly devoid of racial content.

So I guess this is where I am.  I fundamentally don't understand the argument.  It was originally performed at a minstrel show.  That there were minstrel shows at The University is regrettable, but not at all surprising.  

But the song itself lacks any racial content or implications.  And knowing the broader history of the lyrics, it's hard to infer any racist undertones.  The "you" upon whom the Eyes of Texas are were the white students who were expected to go out and succeed.

But people can reasonably disagree with me.  And I think that if they're not comfortable singing the song, then they should have to.  It's Austin--do whatever the fuck you want.  

17 minutes ago, Xian said:

I must say. This has been a very good negotiation tactic. Everyone is willing to give them everything they want outright but the song 

The cynic in me thinks that's exactly what this is.  And the fact is that their other demands are broadly reasonable (though there may be a constitutional problem with The University donating money to any private organization).  But having a building named for Robert Lee Moore is as much of an abomination as the building's architecture.

Culture changes with time. We try to adapt and get better, and we wrestle with mistakes from the past. I love that the students are debating this. I also acknowledge that even though the song doesn't seem racist or hurtful to me (a white dude who's done fine in this system), it isn't really my call to make. If a large group of people believe that the song is racist or hurtful, I sorta feel like it's their call. 

 

Dammit, Reynolds Woodcock beat me to it. And said it better. 

Edited by honolulu horn

Culture changes with time. We try to adapt and get better, and we wrestle with mistakes from the past. I love that the students are debating this. I also acknowledge that even though the song doesn't seem racist or hurtful to me (a white dude who's done fine in this system), it isn't really my call to make. If a large group of people believe that the song is racist or hurtful, I sorta feel like it's their call. 

You nailed it man.
3 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

And I think that if they're not comfortable singing the song, then they should have to. 

Tough, but fair. 

Maybe if the band would slow it down to normal speed this wouldn't be an issue

2 minutes ago, honolulu horn said:

Culture changes with time. We try to adapt and get better, and we wrestle with mistakes from the past. I love that the students are debating this. I also acknowledge that even though the song doesn't seem racist or hurtful to me (a white dude who's done fine in this system), it isn't really my call to make. If a large group of people believe that the song is racist or hurtful, I sorta feel like it's their call. 

 

Dammit, Reynolds Woodstock beat me to it. And said it better. 

Define "large group".  

We'll go from there. 

2 minutes ago, smoky said:

Maybe if the band would slow it down to normal speed this wouldn't be an issue

Would it sound chopped and screwed then?

3 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Tough, but fair. 

Ha--yeah.  Stupid typo.  Obviously meant that they shouldn't have to sing it.

I'm honestly surprised to hear that we have a rule requiring players to sing it.  That seems both unnecessary and stupid.

Just now, Wally Pryor said:

Define "large group".  

We'll go from there. 

I can't. I know that makes it really hard. That's why I said we try. We should listen, we should understand, we should respond. That goes for interactions with anyone with whom we disagree -- individuals and groups, large or small. 

I know that in this instance, I am definitely not part of the group that has proposed this. So my role is to listen, understand, and respond. 

26 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

The University of Texas is more than a collection of buildings. The values of the University and what they symbolize is what matters not some fucking song, not a name on a building or a statue. The University has to stand for every one of its students and faculty not just a select few. To those that fear and lament change I will simply say the pride and winning tradition of The University of Texas will not be entrusted to the weak or the timid. 

 

 "What Starts Here Changes the World" 🤘

Also what would they do if people started singing it without the band? I don't believe they can ban people singing a song, right?

2 hours ago, John Lawrence said:

The school shouldn't keep their tainted money.

Donor would have a pretty decent promissory estoppel claim also.

The donor most likely would not, especially being that the donors are long since deceased.  There is actually some specific law on this.

54 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think it is more like it was a song to be performed by students at some student production.

It so happened that the "premier" student production at the time took the form of a minstrel show.

That is a highly regrettable coincidence, but not much more than a coincidence because the song itself is utterly devoid of racial content.

This.  The song itself is not racial or racist.  It's association is one of proximity -- it was introduced at a minstrel show.  But any number of songs may have been introduced at minstrel shows, because minstrel shows were a crappy thing we did for decades.  Shit, "Happy Birthday" may have been, I dunno.

40 minutes ago, Xian said:

I must say. This has been a very good negotiation tactic. Everyone is willing to give them everything they want outright but the song 

But definitely this.  It's actually not a terrible negotiation tactic.

8 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

 

So I guess this is where I am.  I fundamentally don't understand the argument.  It was originally performed at a minstrel show.  That there were minstrel shows at The University is regrettable, but not at all surprising.  

But the song itself lacks any racial content or implications.  And knowing the broader history of the lyrics, it's hard to infer any racist undertones.  The "you" upon whom the Eyes of Texas are were the white students who were expected to go out and succeed.

But people can reasonably disagree with me.  And I think that if they're not comfortable singing the song, then they should have to.  It's Austin--do whatever the fuck you want.  

The cynic in me thinks that's exactly what this is.  And the fact is that their other demands are broadly reasonable (though there may be a constitutional problem with The University donating money to any private organization).  But having a building named for Robert Lee Moore is as much of an abomination as the building's architecture.

And I hate it when I agree with GOLL across the board, but there you are.  It's not racial or racist.  But if anyone doesn't want to sing it, they shouldn't have to sing it.  And yes, GOLL knows how negotiations work -- there's nothing cynical about it, it's pretty realistic.

4 minutes ago, honolulu horn said:

I can't. I know that makes it really hard. That's why I said we try. We should listen, we should understand, we should respond. That goes for interactions with anyone with whom we disagree -- individuals and groups, large or small. 

I know that in this instance, I am definitely not part of the group that has proposed this. So my role is to listen, understand, and respond. 

 

And that's totally fair.   As long as there is give and take in the matter we are probably all onboard.

As it, it just feels like there is "take" in the country.    Therein lies part of the problem at this point.

Edited by Wally Pryor

When a large group of black alumni band together to show their support for keeping The Eyes then we will be able to debate. If that doesn't happen then it would be pretty hard to say there isn't a racial divide on the topic.

25 minutes ago, Burntcowboy said:

I give a fuck, and so do my two girls that graduated from UT. There are different opinions on the subject. Disagreeing with the opposition doesn’t make them stupid or wrong. We are going to have to agree to disagree 

We're going to need pictures of each to assess which one of them is right.

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