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It's well established that while Lennon and McCartney co-wrote many of their early songs together "eyeball to eyeball" as Lennon stated in a later interview (I Want to Hold Your Hand was written by both of them while they sat at each end of the same piano, for example), but much of the middle years and most of the late years were written solo and then brought to the rest of the band for improvements. There are many songs credited Lennon/McCartney that were written and performed without the others' input. 

DixonHur is also wrong about Lennon's musical talent and song arrangement, saying "it's usually just a piano." It's very trendy to shit on his music these days, but the "Lennon was the lyrics guy while McCartney was the music guy" is an old trope that conveniently ignores complex songs like Strawberry Fields, Happiness is a Warm Gun, Day in the Life, I am the Walrus, Steel and Glass, Whatever Gets You Through the Night, Starting Over....there's a long list. But it is the unpopular opinion thread, so keep it up. 

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52 minutes ago, honolulu horn said:

It's well established that while Lennon and McCartney co-wrote many of their early songs together "eyeball to eyeball" as Lennon stated in a later interview (I Want to Hold Your Hand was written by both of them while they sat at each end of the same piano, for example), but much of the middle years and most of the late years were written solo and then brought to the rest of the band for improvements. There are many songs credited Lennon/McCartney that were written and performed without the others' input. 

DixonHur is also wrong about Lennon's musical talent and song arrangement, saying "it's usually just a piano." It's very trendy to shit on his music these days, but the "Lennon was the lyrics guy while McCartney was the music guy" is an old trope that conveniently ignores complex songs like Strawberry Fields, Happiness is a Warm Gun, Day in the Life, I am the Walrus, Steel and Glass, Whatever Gets You Through the Night, Starting Over....there's a long list. But it is the unpopular opinion thread, so keep it up. 

Ok, half of those are Beatle songs, so I will only respond to the Lennon solo stuff.

Perhaps it's a definition issue, but I'm willing to learn, what is musically complex about Steel & Glass?  Seems pretty straightforward to me.  

Same with Starting Over (one of my favs BTW), Whatever Gets You Through the Night.

I mean compare either of those musically to either Live and Let Die, or Maybe I'm Amazed....it's not even close.

whatever gets you through the night  is awesome, when Bobby Keys and Elton John are playing on it. 

19 hours ago, DixonHur said:

Ok, half of those are Beatle songs, so I will only respond to the Lennon solo stuff.

Perhaps it's a definition issue, but I'm willing to learn, what is musically complex about Steel & Glass?  Seems pretty straightforward to me.  

Same with Starting Over (one of my favs BTW), Whatever Gets You Through the Night.

I mean compare either of those musically to either Live and Let Die, or Maybe I'm Amazed....it's not even close.

I'm a huge Macca apologist and an admitted Beatles honk, so I won't argue the genius of Paul McCartney's songwriting. I was only saying that Lennon's material IS complex and interesting in many cases, and it's certainly not "usually just piano." I've actually been on a project in which I am playing every guitar part of every Beatles song in chronological order (as well as many other instruments in their songs). It has been a cool project to see the songwriting of John, Paul and George develop from a musicianship angle. I'm just about through with the White Album and it's clear that John is the most straight-ahead rock musician in the group, but some of his stuff is really intricate. But yeah, McCartney went into entirely different genres and soundscapes after the Beatles, and often went complex, whereas John kept more true to standard rock and roll songwriting.

Still, I think Lennon was at his best when he kept it simple, TBH. His best album is Plastic Ono Band and that's about as simple and straightforward as a musician can get. 

4 hours ago, honolulu horn said:

I'm a huge Macca apologist and an admitted Beatles honk, so I won't argue the genius of Paul McCartney's songwriting. I was only saying that Lennon's material IS complex and interesting in many cases, and it's certainly not "usually just piano." I've actually been on a project in which I am playing every guitar part of every Beatles song in chronological order (as well as many other instruments in their songs). It has been a cool project to see the songwriting of John, Paul and George develop from a musicianship angle. I'm just about through with the White Album and it's clear that John is the most straight-ahead rock musician in the group, but some of his stuff is really intricate. But yeah, McCartney went into entirely different genres and soundscapes after the Beatles, and often went complex, whereas John kept more true to standard rock and roll songwriting.

Still, I think Lennon was at his best when he kept it simple, TBH. His best album is Plastic Ono Band and that's about as simple and straightforward as a musician can get. 

I still think most of John's post-Beatles music was piano based...not all, but in my brain, it feels like at least 60%...but I have no argument with the overall point you're making.  I love Paul's "songwriting" in terms of musical composition, that's been the basis for my entire point.  But I think lyrically he's pretty basic.  I have no insight, but it seems like Paul writes the music first and works the lyrics around it, while John's songs feel like it starts with lyrics/poetry and he builds the music around that.  

When I was a kid, my favorite Beatles were obviously John and Paul, since they wrote most of the songs and were essentially the face of the band.  However, George became my favorite Beatle after the break-up, because his music feels like a nice mix of John and Paul.  

4 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

I have no insight, but it seems like Paul writes the music first and works the lyrics around it, while John's songs feel like it starts with lyrics/poetry and he builds the music around that. 

This is a far different take than you had previously, when you were implying the two guys wrote together.

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

This is a far different take than you had previously, when you were implying the two guys wrote together.

No.  This is why I think that.

I think one or the other would get the idea, either musically (Paul), or lyrically (John)...put a demo together and then the other would provide notes, help, ideas, etc.

I don't have experience in music, but I have a lot of film experience and think this creative process would work similarly.

Edited by DixonHur

  • 1 year later...

 

I live in a world where everyone around me thinks "Sunday Mornin' Comin' Down" is genius.  Since I just didn't see it, I thought the failure must be my own.

Today I decided it's just a bad song.

 

*Excerpted from my upcoming collection of essays, "All of My Issues Are Someone Else's Fault."  Pre-order on Amazon.  

25 minutes ago, Paul Wesley said:

 

I live in a world where everyone around me thinks "Sunday Mornin' Comin' Down" is genius.  Since I just didn't see it, I thought the failure must be my own.

Today I decided it's just a bad song.

 

*Excerpted from my upcoming collection of essays, "All of My Issues Are Someone Else's Fault."  Pre-order on Amazon.  

Well you have at least one person that agrees with you.

  • 2 months later...

people who go out of their way to point out "i have such diverse taste in music" are insufferable. oh wow, you like rap AND jazz. incredible! it's called being a music fan. other than your aunt franny who only listens to polka, actual music fans listen to a whole array of music. i've never once found someone with a record collection that only contains one genre. these must be the same people who think the weather in their state is special "if you don't like the weather in (insert state) just wait 5 minutes and it will change!". no shit, that's what the weather does everywhere. /rant

3 minutes ago, stc said:

people who go out of their way to point out "i have such diverse taste in music" are insufferable. oh wow, you like rap AND jazz. incredible! it's called being a music fan. other than your aunt franny who only listens to polka, actual music fans listen to a whole array of music. i've never once found someone with a record collection that only contains one genre. these must be the same people who think the weather in their state is special "if you don't like the weather in (insert state) just wait 5 minutes and it will change!". no shit, that's what the weather does everywhere. /rant

While I completely agree with your general premise, I had a buddy who lived in SoCal for 5 years and somewhere after year 3 got sick and tired of the weather never fucking changing.

3 hours ago, stc said:

these must be the same people who think the weather in their state is special "if you don't like the weather in (insert state) just wait 5 minutes and it will change!". no shit, that's what the weather does everywhere.

 Good rant.

Even when I was a kid, it bothered me to hear adults say that about weather in Texas.  It's decidedly not true.  I'd think, "Didn't we just hit 100 degrees thirty days (or more) in a row?"

4 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

While I completely agree with your general premise, I had a buddy who lived in SoCal for 5 years and somewhere after year 3 got sick and tired of the weather never fucking changing.

Well I’ve heard it never rains in Southern California. 

8 minutes ago, Underdog said:

Well I’ve heard it never rains in Southern California. 

It pours man, it pours.

  • 4 weeks later...

Jerry Reed was fucking amazing and should always be mentioned in any discussions of great guitarists.  
 

 

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