June 15, 20214 yr Here’s the premise: construct one roster from just #1 overall draft picks. Then construct another from anyone else. I’m going to stick to guys drafted in my lifetime (1981), but feel free to do yours how you want. 1st over all picks: pg: kyrie / derick rose sg: Allen Iverson / John wall sf: lebron pf: duncan/ Webber C : Hakeem /Robinson/shaq The field: pg: Chris paul / curry / Stockton sg: jordan / Kobe Sf: durant / pippen pf: malone / KG c : jokic / mourning/ dikembe Who wins in a best of 7? I’m not sure myself. I’d probably go with the field as long as the front court can be serviceable defensively. Jordan would terrorize the guards on both ends of the court.
June 15, 20214 yr I haven't (nor am I going to) run through the actual names to confirm, but I'd bet you get a more even matchup if you limited the field team to picks 2-5 or something like that
June 15, 20214 yr Author 9 minutes ago, TommyGufano said: I haven't (nor am I going to) run through the actual names to confirm, but I'd bet you get a more even matchup if you limited the field team to picks 2-5 or something like that Let’s see what you get?
June 15, 20214 yr Backcourt: Isiah Thomas, MJ, Gary Payton, JKidd, DWade, Harden, premature to say Luka? edit: CP3 needs to be in here too. PG silly deep with options Frontcourt: KD, Pippen, Dominique, Grant Hill (do I get these guys at their best/pretend they were healthy?) Barkley, KG, Zo, and probably Dike for 6 fouls on the very formidable centers they're up against, edit: add Embiid Edited June 15, 20214 yr by TommyGufano
June 15, 20214 yr 2 hours ago, dingleberryswitzer said: sg: jordan / Kobe Sf: durant / Isn't it over right here?
June 15, 20214 yr Author 9 minutes ago, MoJames said: Isn't it over right here? Lebron/Duncan/Hakeem? I mean this is just thinking my pure position vs position talent. Obviously in a real game you can have all 3 of those guys living in the paint while none are great 3 pt shooters.
June 15, 20214 yr Stockton Jordan Kobe Durant Mutumbo You sub in KG for the 4 if you are getting beat up down low?
June 15, 20214 yr It just goes to show that the draft is rightly all about height. Nobody missed on the bigs and they all went #1 except Embiid, who easily would have if not for the injury red flags. Once you get past dominant bigs the draft process gets to be much more of a crap shoot.
June 15, 20214 yr I will take the first rounders. they are better at the 3, 4 and 5. Size is typical as the differentiating force if you are talking about everyone playing at their highest and best level. Maybe get roasted too much at the guard spot- but I see the 1’s having 4 of the 5 best players (Dream, Shaq, Duncan and LBJ). That’s 4 of the top 15 players ever? Meanwhile the field has probably the GOAT in Jordan and Kobe barely outside the top 10 and maybe KD at the back end of the top 15?
June 15, 20214 yr This group is not getting swept and doesn't need the opponents to be limited to picks 2-5, especially with a wealth of big guys to smash in the paint Magic Iverson LeBron Olajuwon Shaq
June 15, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, Doc Sam Beckett said: This group is not getting swept and doesn't need the opponents to be limited to picks 2-5, especially with a wealth of big guys to smash in the paint Magic Iverson LeBron Olajuwon Shaq Magic not within original parameters
June 15, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, TommyGufano said: Magic not within original parameters Eh it was an arbitrary set of parameters. 79 to 81 isn't huge, we're not going back to grab the Big O
June 15, 20214 yr Depending on the parameters, Kareem was also a number one pick. If you give me Magic, Kareem, Hakeem, and LBJ, I think I’d win even if my fifth was Squeaky Melchiorre shaving points.
June 15, 20214 yr It just goes to show that the draft is rightly all about height. Nobody missed on the bigs and they all went #1 except Embiid, who easily would have if not for the injury red flags. Once you get past dominant bigs the draft process gets to be much more of a crap shoot. Plenty of #1 bigs were misses. Off the top of my head there's Olowokandi, kwame brown, Oden, pervis Ellison, joe Smith.
June 15, 20214 yr 26 minutes ago, gsoda3 said: 48 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said: It just goes to show that the draft is rightly all about height. Nobody missed on the bigs and they all went #1 except Embiid, who easily would have if not for the injury red flags. Once you get past dominant bigs the draft process gets to be much more of a crap shoot. Plenty of #1 bigs were misses. Off the top of my head there's Olowokandi, kwame brown, Oden, pervis Ellison, joe Smith. Yeah- that wasn’t what I was trying to say. What I was trying to say is nobody ever misses a dominant big man bc of the bias to always take bigs. Plenty of busts bc of people taking bigs hoping they will be that guy. IOW you can talk yourself out of taking Luca or MJ but nobody ever talks themselves out of taking Hakeem or Shaq. Said it bad. Edited June 15, 20214 yr by Wulaw Horn
June 15, 20214 yr Yeah- that wasn’t what I was trying to say. What I was trying to say is nobody ever misses a dominant big man bc of the bus’s to always take bigs. Plenty of busts bc of people taking bigs hoping they will be that guy. IOW you can talk yourself out of taking Luca or MJ but nobody ever talks themselves out of taking Hakeem or Shaq. Said it bad. Gotcha.
June 15, 20214 yr Generally these hypotheticals come down to the "Does your team have MJ on it?" flow chart. Not sure why this one would be any different.
June 16, 20214 yr Author 2 hours ago, TommyGufano said: Magic not within original parameters He the draft barrier was my own limitations, y’all old guys are free to choose as you want. I normally just don’t feel like I can speak about those guys when I never saw them play. I barely remember magic and bird.
June 16, 20214 yr Author 2 hours ago, Doc Sam Beckett said: This group is not getting swept and doesn't need the opponents to be limited to picks 2-5, especially with a wealth of big guys to smash in the paint Magic Iverson LeBron Olajuwon Shaq That’s pretty good.
June 16, 20214 yr Author 1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said: Yeah- that wasn’t what I was trying to say. What I was trying to say is nobody ever misses a dominant big man bc of the bias to always take bigs. Plenty of busts bc of people taking bigs hoping they will be that guy. IOW you can talk yourself out of taking Luca or MJ but nobody ever talks themselves out of taking Hakeem or Shaq. Said it bad. I agree. I found it really interesting that there wasn’t a single center drafted after #1 that no one would even put in the conversation as the best center ever. Like, in 40 years there was never 2 great centers centers in the same draft, no lucky diamonds in the rough.
June 16, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said: I agree. I found it really interesting that there wasn’t a single center drafted after #1 that no one would even put in the conversation as the best center ever. Like, in 40 years there was never 2 great centers centers in the same draft, no lucky diamonds in the rough. Embiid is the closest. He never would have fallen without a billion injury red flags.
June 16, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, ztejas said: Generally these hypotheticals come down to the "Does your team have MJ on it?" flow chart. Not sure why this one would be any different. 15 posts to get to Kareem. LOLz.
June 16, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, slorch said: 15 posts to get to Kareem. LOLz. in a thread where OP limits topic to players drafted since 1981. LOLz.
June 16, 20214 yr 15 minutes ago, TommyGufano said: in a thread where OP limits topic to players drafted since 1981. LOLz. but feel free to do yours how you want. LOLz
June 16, 20214 yr 4 hours ago, ztejas said: Generally these hypotheticals come down to the "Does your team have MJ on it?" flow chart. Not sure why this one would be any different. Although maybe it should be the "does your team have KD on it?" flow chart. Since you get both of them I'll ride with the irrelevants.
June 16, 20214 yr 12 hours ago, ztejas said: Although maybe it should be the "does your team have KD on it?" flow chart. Since you get both of them I'll ride with the irrelevants. I think LeBron and MJ cancel each other out. How are you going to stop Shaq and Hakeem?
June 16, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, Doc Sam Beckett said: I think LeBron and MJ cancel each other out. How are you going to stop Shaq and Hakeem? Since there's not any super skilled big that didn't go #1 I think you'd just take a flier on someone like Gobert or Mutombo maybe that can play really good D and hopefully slow one of those guys down. Wallace or Zo might be good too but they just straight up aren't as tall and I feel like you'd need to throw a 7 footer at Shaq and Dream or Duncan. Also you get KG who has an argument for being the greatest defender we've ever seen in his prime. Give me peak CP3, MJ, KD, KG and Dikembe and you can throw out any lineup you want - real or imaginary - and I like my chances. Off the bench you get Curry and Kobe as microwaves - maybe throw Wade in there too - and you can scratch together enough minutes from Mutombo/Gobert and maybe throw Wallace in there against certain lineups. Yeah Shaq is a problem but the 1s are way shittier and less deep at the guard spots - I think that more than evens out. You're welcome to call MJ and LeBron a wash. Shit - if you promise me that Embiid is healthy I might take him with the #2s. And if we go back further than '81 - okay they get Magic, cool, we get Bird. Although Magic fills a much bigger hole for that team. Edited June 16, 20214 yr by ztejas
June 16, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, Doc Sam Beckett said: I think LeBron and MJ cancel each other out. How are you going to stop Shaq and Hakeem?
June 16, 20214 yr Author 1 hour ago, ztejas said: Give me peak CP3, MJ, KD, KG and Dikembe and you can throw out any lineup you want - real or imaginary - and I like my chances. Good shit!
June 16, 20214 yr 5 minutes ago, closetohumping said: Sorry, there's a team with KD/Kobe/MJ and they'll lose? Nah. They get Curry too.
June 16, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, ztejas said: Also you get KG who has an argument for being the greatest defender we've ever seen in his prime. say what?
June 16, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, slorch said: say what? He isn't my personal pick but it's not the craziest thing you could argue. He's probably the most versatile defender ever. At his absolute peak in 2004 his stats were nutty. Led the league in all kinds of metrics including rebounds per game and had 1.5 steals and 2.2 blocks per game on just 2.5 fouls. The "he can guard 1-5" cliche gets tossed around sometimes and is basically never true but KG could actually do it. He generally trends on pretty underrated as a player as he didn't have as much team success as his contemporaries.
June 16, 20214 yr 11 minutes ago, ztejas said: He isn't my personal pick but it's not the craziest thing you could argue. He's probably the most versatile defender ever. At his absolute peak in 2004 his stats were nutty. Led the league in all kinds of metrics including rebounds per game and had 1.5 steals and 2.2 blocks per game on just 2.5 fouls. The "he can guard 1-5" cliche gets tossed around sometimes and is basically never true but KG could actually do it. He generally trends on pretty underrated as a player as he didn't have as much team success as his contemporaries. Best Playoffs (no game minimum) Points Per Game Kevin Garnett 27.0 (2003) Hakeem Olajuwon 37.5 (1988) Rebounds Per Game Kevin Garnett 18.7 (2002) Hakeem Olajuwon 16.8 (1988) Assists Per Game Kevin Garnett 8.8 (2000) Hakeem Olajuwon 4.8 (1993) Steals Per Game Kevin Garnett 1.9 (2011) Hakeem Olajuwon 2.5 (1990) Blocks Per Game Kevin Garnett 2.4 (1998) Hakeem Olajuwon 5.8 (1990) KG had more first team all defense(12) than Dream's9 Dream had 2 DPOTY to KG's 1 Garnett was great but I'm not picking him before Olajuwon, even without the offensive end. Edited June 16, 20214 yr by slorch
June 16, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, ztejas said: Since there's not any super skilled big that didn't go #1 I think you'd just take a flier on someone like Gobert or Mutombo maybe that can play really good D and hopefully slow one of those guys down. Wallace or Zo might be good too but they just straight up aren't as tall and I feel like you'd need to throw a 7 footer at Shaq and Dream or Duncan. Also you get KG who has an argument for being the greatest defender we've ever seen in his prime. Give me peak CP3, MJ, KD, KG and Dikembe and you can throw out any lineup you want - real or imaginary - and I like my chances. Off the bench you get Curry and Kobe as microwaves - maybe throw Wade in there too - and you can scratch together enough minutes from Mutombo/Gobert and maybe throw Wallace in there against certain lineups. Yeah Shaq is a problem but the 1s are way shittier and less deep at the guard spots - I think that more than evens out. You're welcome to call MJ and LeBron a wash. Shit - if you promise me that Embiid is healthy I might take him with the #2s. And if we go back further than '81 - okay they get Magic, cool, we get Bird. Although Magic fills a much bigger hole for that team. Being excited about KG and Dikembe covering Shaq/Hakeem/Duncan is like me being excited about Ben Simmons covering KD. You don't have a decent answer for me in the paint, and I don't have a decent answer for KD at SF. Zion maybe? Like you said Magic does so much more for the 1s than Bird does for the field. Depth at guard could be an issue for the 1s, but I'm fine with Magic, Iverson, Irving, Rose, and Wall. We need The Glove who should have been a number one pick
June 16, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, slorch said: Best Playoffs (no game minimum) Points Per Game Kevin Garnett 27.0 (2003) Hakeem Olajuwon 37.5 (1988) Rebounds Per Game Kevin Garnett 18.7 (2002) Hakeem Olajuwon 16.8 (1988) Assists Per Game Kevin Garnett 8.8 (2000) Hakeem Olajuwon 4.8 (1993) Steals Per Game Kevin Garnett 1.9 (2011) Hakeem Olajuwon 2.5 (1990) Blocks Per Game Kevin Garnett 2.4 (1998) Hakeem Olajuwon 5.8 (1990) KG had more first team all defense(12) than Dream's9 Dream had 2 DPOTY to KG's 1 What is this? Did you read my post or are you just vomiting Hakeem stats on the thread? I think we all know Hakeem was a better player. That doesn't make him a more versatile defender or really address anything I wrote.
June 16, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said: Being excited about KG and Dikembe covering Shaq/Hakeem/Duncan is like me being excited about Ben Simmons covering KD. Hey... I didn't say I was excited about it. Shaq's gonna get his 30 but I can at least make him sweat a bit. MJ and KD are gonna get theirs no matter what you draw up, too. Edited June 16, 20214 yr by ztejas
June 16, 20214 yr Today's rules/game where a big can't just park his ass under the basket, I really don't see the 1's with any chance. So many of those (minus Dream) have redundant skills too. I think it goes 5 games max...
June 16, 20214 yr 19 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said: Embiid is the closest. He never would have fallen without a billion injury red flags. Well, they weren't wrong
June 16, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, Trey3216 said: Well, they weren't wrong Sure. And that risk is the only thing that can keep you from drafting Embiid. And the way the careers have played out that shows why you never pass on that guy.
June 16, 20214 yr For a slightly different twist on the question, rank these teams by draft pick (Since 1978): #2 Picks PG – Isiah Thomas ’84 – #5 MVP SG – Jason Kidd ’02 – #2 MVP SF – Gary Payton ’98 – #3 MVP PF – Kevin Durant ’14 - MVP C – Alonzo Mourning ’99 – #2 MVP, DPoY B1 – LaMarcus Aldridge ’15 - #7 MVP B2 – Tyson Chandler ’12 – DPoY #3 Picks PG – James Harden ’18 - MVP SG – Michael Jordan ’96 - MVP SF – Dominique Wilkins ’86 - #2 MVP PF – Kevin McHale ’87 - #4 MVP C – Pau Gasol ’11 - 2nd Team NBA B1 – Penny Hardaway ’96 - #3 MVP B2 – Carmelo Anthony ’13 – #3 MVP #4 Picks PG – Chris Paul ’12 - #3 MVP SG – Russell Westbrook ’16 - MVP SF - Glen Rice ’97 - #5 MVP PF – Chris Bosh ’07 - #7 MVP C – Dikembe Mutombo - #13 MVP, DPoY B1 – Rasheed Wallace ’05 – All Star B2 – Mike Conley ’13 – All Def #5 Picks PG – Ray Allen ’05 - #9 MVP SG – Dwyane Wade ’09 - #3 MVP SF – Scottie Pippin ’94 - #2 MVP PF – Charles Barkley ‘93 - MVP C – Kevin Garnett ’04 - MVP B1 – Vince Carter ’01 – 2nd Team NBA B2 – Kevin Love ’12 - #6 MVP #6 Picks PG – Damian Lillard ’18 - #4 MVP SG – Brandon Roy ’09 - #9 MVP SF – Larry Bird ’85 - MVP PF – Antoine Walker ’98 - #12 MVP C – Chris Kaman ’10 – All Star B1 – Hersey Hawkins ’91 – All Star B2 – Wally Szczerbiak ’02 – All-Star #7 Picks PG – Steph Curry ’16 - MVP SG – Kevin Johnson ’91 - #7 MVP SF – Chris Mullin ’92 - #6 MVP PF – Julius Randle ’21 - #8 MVP C – Roy Tarpley ‘88 – 6th MOY B1 – Alvin Robertson ‘86 - #13 MVP, DPoY B2 – Rip Hamilton ’07 – All-Star #13 Picks PG – Donovan Mitchell ’21 – All-Star SG – Devin Booker ’21 – All Star SF – Kobe Bryant ‘08 - MVP PF – Karl Malone ’97 - MVP C – Dale Davis ’00 – All Star B2 – Sleepy Floyd ’87 – All Star B – Zach LaVine ’21 – All Star
June 16, 20214 yr The #1's team that one of yall put together can't shoot for shit. LeBron by far the best floor spacer in that lineup, and though he's a better shooter than his detractors would have you believe, he's still a far cry from a knockdown shooter. So Hakeem and Shaq are getting 4 defenders in the paint. And there might not be a better 4th or 5th banana imaginable than KG, because he was such a beta bitch on offense. He's being super passive? Great. We have 4 guys who are better scorers anyway. Add to that he was a very good passer and can reasonably spread the floor PLUS he can defend 3 positions and that's guy I want filling out my starting 5. At some point these mega stars cannibalize one another. With KG pretty much nothing gets sacrificed when you knock him down to 8 shots per 48
June 17, 20214 yr 23 hours ago, HookEm said: For a slightly different twist on the question, rank these teams by draft pick (Since 1978): #2 Picks PG – Isiah Thomas ’84 – #5 MVP SG – Jason Kidd ’02 – #2 MVP SF – Gary Payton ’98 – #3 MVP PF – Kevin Durant ’14 - MVP C – Alonzo Mourning ’99 – #2 MVP, DPoY B1 – LaMarcus Aldridge ’15 - #7 MVP B2 – Tyson Chandler ’12 – DPoY #3 Picks PG – James Harden ’18 - MVP SG – Michael Jordan ’96 - MVP SF – Dominique Wilkins ’86 - #2 MVP PF – Kevin McHale ’87 - #4 MVP C – Pau Gasol ’11 - 2nd Team NBA B1 – Penny Hardaway ’96 - #3 MVP B2 – Carmelo Anthony ’13 – #3 MVP #4 Picks PG – Chris Paul ’12 - #3 MVP SG – Russell Westbrook ’16 - MVP SF - Glen Rice ’97 - #5 MVP PF – Chris Bosh ’07 - #7 MVP C – Dikembe Mutombo - #13 MVP, DPoY B1 – Rasheed Wallace ’05 – All Star B2 – Mike Conley ’13 – All Def #5 Picks PG – Ray Allen ’05 - #9 MVP SG – Dwyane Wade ’09 - #3 MVP SF – Scottie Pippin ’94 - #2 MVP PF – Charles Barkley ‘93 - MVP C – Kevin Garnett ’04 - MVP B1 – Vince Carter ’01 – 2nd Team NBA B2 – Kevin Love ’12 - #6 MVP #6 Picks PG – Damian Lillard ’18 - #4 MVP SG – Brandon Roy ’09 - #9 MVP SF – Larry Bird ’85 - MVP PF – Antoine Walker ’98 - #12 MVP C – Chris Kaman ’10 – All Star B1 – Hersey Hawkins ’91 – All Star B2 – Wally Szczerbiak ’02 – All-Star #7 Picks PG – Steph Curry ’16 - MVP SG – Kevin Johnson ’91 - #7 MVP SF – Chris Mullin ’92 - #6 MVP PF – Julius Randle ’21 - #8 MVP C – Roy Tarpley ‘88 – 6th MOY B1 – Alvin Robertson ‘86 - #13 MVP, DPoY B2 – Rip Hamilton ’07 – All-Star #13 Picks PG – Donovan Mitchell ’21 – All-Star SG – Devin Booker ’21 – All Star SF – Kobe Bryant ‘08 - MVP PF – Karl Malone ’97 - MVP C – Dale Davis ’00 – All Star B2 – Sleepy Floyd ’87 – All Star B – Zach LaVine ’21 – All Star I'll go #3, #5, #2 in that order. MJ still MJ and you're leaving Luka off the team. That #5 team is sneaky good though. Wade would have to play point but he can. I'd probably dig a little deeper to find a true PG to come off the bench. (Didn't Trae go #5?) The #13s have some crazy talent but that seems like a disaster waiting to happen. Edited June 17, 20214 yr by ztejas
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