April 22, 20241 yr 35 minutes ago, Farmerted said: The women /couples that are well off all have 2-4 kids average is 3 .The people that make let’s say less than 40 k have kids most are young and have 1-3 Adam Carolla has a kinda funny bit, rich man poor man. Things that rich guys and poor guys have in common. One of those is definitely, have a lot of kids. Another is having several cars in your driveway. And so on.
April 22, 20241 yr I remember both my parents and Mrs. CHIEF’s family both told us, “if you wait until you think you can afford kids, you will never have them.” This was about five years into our marriage. Mrs. CHIEF and I had been living in apartments, and were waiting until we could purchase our first home. My parents helped us, and said there is more support if you need it. Her parents did as well. Children are expensive, time consuming, and are a bunch of trouble. However, the day your first born arrives is the best day of your life. Everything pales in comparison. At least it does for me. CHIEF
April 22, 20241 yr 7 minutes ago, CHIEF said: I remember both my parents and Mrs. CHIEF’s family both told us, “if you wait until you think you can afford kids, you will never have them.” This was about five years into our marriage. Mrs. CHIEF and I had been living in apartments, and were waiting until we could purchase our first home. My parents helped us, and said there is more support if you need it. Her parents did as well. Children are expensive, time consuming, and are a bunch of trouble. However, the day your first born arrives is the best day of your life. Everything pales in comparison. At least it does for me. CHIEF 1234
April 22, 20241 yr 25 minutes ago, CHIEF said: However, the day your first born arrives is the best day of your life. Everything pales in comparison. At least it does for me. CHIEF Sigh. So that's how it is in their family. j/k Edited April 22, 20241 yr by Mrs Whiggins
April 22, 20241 yr However, the day your first born arrives is the best day of your life. Everything pales in comparison. At least it does for me. CHIEFSo the rest of your kids sucked ass or what?
April 22, 20241 yr 5 minutes ago, tbone_ said: So the rest of your kids sucked ass or what? One was enough. CHIEF
April 23, 20241 yr 14 hours ago, CHIEF said: However, the day your first born arrives is the best day of your life. Everything pales in comparison. At least it does for me. CHIEF Dude, wait until you find out about Grandkids. They are gods gift to you for not killing your kids. You don't have the day-to-day with and responsibility and financial commitment; but you can have as much of that as you want. And they are cute, loving and when they misbehave it is the parents job to work that out. Disclaimer - my oldest grand is not yet 10, but I can tell that by the time they are teens the while dynamic I describe will change
April 23, 20241 yr 15 hours ago, CHIEF said: I remember both my parents and Mrs. CHIEF’s family both told us, “if you wait until you think you can afford kids, you will never have them.” This was about five years into our marriage. Mrs. CHIEF and I had been living in apartments, and were waiting until we could purchase our first home. My parents helped us, and said there is more support if you need it. Her parents did as well. Children are expensive, time consuming, and are a bunch of trouble. However, the day your first born arrives is the best day of your life. Everything pales in comparison. At least it does for me. CHIEF I heard that stupid shit too. From the same people that advised me on a graduate teaching assistants' salary I could afford a $300k home in 2007 and I should get in on this hot real estate market.
April 23, 20241 yr It may just be as simple as more people don't have kids these days because in our connected world people have a greater realization of how challenging raising kids can be. People gravitate toward the negative in information so they see things across all the various information mediums of the challenge financially, emotionally, time-wise, the responsibility etc, and that resonates a lot more than anybody like me saying while it is and has been those things it has also been extremely rewarding, fulfilling and wouldn't trade it for the world. People can easily attach to more concrete notions of "I'm gonna have less money, less time, emotional stress, and more responsibility." It's harder to attach to the vague notions of "rewarding, fulfilling, etc". Less money is less money...concrete, factual. Fulfilling is an idea that varies from person to person. Are you gonna risk what you are pretty damn certain will be the case (less money) for something you can't be certain of until you get into it (fulfilling)? I dunno...just spitballing. Edited April 23, 20241 yr by Surly Bevo
April 23, 20241 yr Why isn't it as simple as seeing why the fertility rate falls once an economy becomes developed? Ask the question "WHY did people historically have a large number of kids?" Seems that there were two reasons. 1) Labor. In agrarian societies, kids are farm labor. You need them around to keep things rolling along. And 2) higher mortality rates. Have 5-6 kids, hoping that 2-3 survive past age 7. In a developed economy, neither of those factors are in play. Child mortality is rare, and we don't need kids to milk the cows. Thus, the only reasons to have kids are PERSONAL ones, tied to self-fulfillment and desire, and broad social values. TLDR; dropping fertility rates are a feature, not a bug, of developed economies. It's not much more complicated than that, and applies across cultures. Maybe we should focus on how to make our economies more functional and resilient with that factor in mind.
April 23, 20241 yr It is not that simple. Pollution is also causing creating issues with fertility and impacting anogenital distance (which is correlated to fatherhood). Wage stagnation has created a necessity for many to have dual incomes homes. Demands from work are increasing with greater access for people to work remotely during their 'off' hours. Obesity and meat heavy diets impacts sex drive/performance.
April 23, 20241 yr 3 minutes ago, Nivek said: Pollution is also causing creating issues with fertility and impacting anogenital distance (which is correlated to fatherhood). Taint this the truth.
April 23, 20241 yr Always love a good 'taint' reference. But just to be clear, father stepping out on their families & wives to possibly impregnate a woman whose possible child would likely be raised fatherless is bad? Do I have that correct, fellas?
April 23, 20241 yr 5 minutes ago, YGIFS said: But just to be clear, father stepping out on their families & wives to possibly impregnate a woman whose possible child would likely be raised fatherless is bad? Do I have that correct, fellas? I love a good quantity vs. quality debate.
April 23, 20241 yr 6 minutes ago, YGIFS said: Always love a good 'taint' reference. But just to be clear, father stepping out on their families & wives to possibly impregnate a woman whose possible child would likely be raised fatherless is bad? Do I have that correct, fellas? In most social circles, YES. But Surly requires pics to make a determination. CHIEF
April 23, 20241 yr 4 hours ago, BeardIP said: Reminds me of this old saw: If you spoil your kids, you'll raise your grandkids. If you raise your kids, you'll get to spoil your grandkids. It's probably actually a great thing that there are people NOT having kids if they think it's even remotely possible they will be selfish, trauma-inducing parents (or absentee) and their kids will be a burden on others (family, society writ large, etc.). Reminds me of this other Axiom, if you get wisdom from axioms you are a dumbfuck who was probably beaten.
April 23, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, Nivek said: It is not that simple. Pollution is also causing creating issues with fertility and impacting anogenital distance (which is correlated to fatherhood). Wage stagnation has created a necessity for many to have dual incomes homes. Demands from work are increasing with greater access for people to work remotely during their 'off' hours. Obesity and meat heavy diets impacts sex drive/performance. wait what? Did he say "anogenital" heh heh heh
April 23, 20241 yr 6 hours ago, Brisketexan said: Why isn't it as simple as seeing why the fertility rate falls once an economy becomes developed? It's pretty much that simple, according to the book "Empty Planet". Birth rates decline as women gain access to education and birth control.
April 24, 20241 yr It's pretty much that simple, according to the book "Empty Planet". Birth rates decline as women gain access to education and birth control.Well that and you don’t need 7 kids to work the farm as much anymore.
April 24, 20241 yr Just now, tbone_ said: Well that and you don’t need 7 kids to work the farm as much anymore. Seriously. I just think the question isn't "why aren't women having so many kids these days?" as it is "why would a woman want to have so many kids these days?" Why would a woman want to have 4+ kids? In developed economies, the only real motivation would be personal and social: I love kids, I love being a mom, I find it incredibly rewarding, etc. There's no external need or push. It's almost all internal. That's just a by-product of a developed economy.
April 24, 20241 yr At 55 and the parent of one kid, what I didn’t realize earlier that I do now is that the more kids you have the better chance you have of one of them showing back up when it’s time to change your diaper.So there is that. But no one thinks about that at a younger age when you are worried about living your best life.
April 24, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, tbone_ said: At 55 and the parent of one kid, what I didn’t realize earlier that I do now is that the more kids you have the better chance you have of one of them showing back up when it’s time to change your diaper. So there is that. But no one thinks about that at a younger age when you are worried about living your best life. So how are you feeling about your odds now that you've placed it all on one bet. Think you'll get your diaper changed?
April 24, 20241 yr I'm 42...43 later this year. I've NEVER wanted kids - I don't like taking care of myself most days! 😁 But have found it rather shocking how many people say how selfish I am for not wanting to procreate. I make good money, own my house....why NOT get married and add to society? Because...I don't want to. Kids know when they're not wanted and I would HATE to put a child in that situation. Do I want to get married? Yes. But hard pass on being a mom/stepmother. Also...you can pre-pay for nursing homes. Definitely looking into that.
April 24, 20241 yr Driving to work this AM made me wish the Central Texas population would decline a whole fuckin' lot. It shouldn't take 45 minutes to go 6 miles. (In 2010, I could do this same drive in 10-12 minutes.) At this rate, in 2038 the same route will take 3 hours.
April 25, 20241 yr Maybe women never wanted to have 5-6 kids (or any at all) but were forced to for labor or societal reasons. When they actually had, you know, agency, they made the decisions they always wanted to make.
April 25, 20241 yr Maybe women never wanted to have 5-6 kids (or any at all) but were forced to for labor or societal reasons. When they actually had, you know, agency, they made the decisions they always wanted to make.You should remember that the people who claim the loudest to stand for “freedom and liberty” don’t actually mean it. Women having agency is the worst thing to ever happen to humanity, and they very much want to undo it.
May 6, 20241 yr There are a few places to put this, but I decided here because it's quite a shift in narrative from one of the most powerful men on the planet. The prevailing narrative has always been that you need population growth for economic growth and bankers support that, but if he's changing his mind then that has big implications. Maybe you don't need to encourage people to have kids. Maybe you don't need open borders like EU and America have to support economic growth via mass immigration. I tried to find a clip with less provocative caption, but it's an undercover clip. Also, if we decide to allow declining population, debt problem will have to be dealt with.
May 6, 20241 yr If it's one thing we've seen time and time again, it's that corporations will spread those savings and wealth back to customers and citizens from high taxes and no stock buybacks and such that benefit the upper management.
May 10, 20241 yr Just a quick survey, am I the only one on this board who thinks population decline is a good thing?
May 10, 20241 yr Just a quick survey, am I the only one on this board who thinks population decline is a good thing?Good for what?
May 10, 20241 yr 2 minutes ago, DixonHur said: Just a quick survey, am I the only one on this board who thinks population decline is a good thing? It's more interesting than good/bad to me. It is the opposite of what we seemed to have been taught in the 1980s or whatever. It's a relief that we aren't dooming humanity to live like sardines in the future while all resources are consumed, which is nice. But in our lifetimes it'll be more bad than good is my guess because our economy is very hardwired with growth as an assumption.
May 10, 20241 yr 12 minutes ago, tbone_ said: Good for what? Everything, IMO People are the most destructive "virus" on the planet. But in terms of practicality, AI is coming, meaning fewer jobs, meaning more poverty, meaning more crime, meaning more civil unrest, meaning more war, etc... I believe the only solution is fewer people, and a system of universal basic income. People who want to be wealthier can work at one of the fewer jobs available.
May 10, 20241 yr 40 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said: Regardless of his proposed policies, Macron's probably not the best person to lead the messenging on that campaign.
May 10, 20241 yr I wonder why humans have this great need for some apocalyptic event that is always coming. I don’t get it. Since recorded history started, we know we’ve been predicting some apocalypse- whether it be religious, natural, external/space based, or human caused.
May 10, 20241 yr 3 minutes ago, DixonHur said: Everything, IMO People are the most destructive "virus" on the planet. But in terms of practicality, AI is coming, meaning fewer jobs, meaning more poverty, meaning more crime, meaning more civil unrest, meaning more war, etc... I believe the only solution is fewer people, and a system of universal basic income. People who want to be wealthier can work at one of the fewer jobs available. There a many species I’d rather rid the earth of first. Fire ants and mosquitoes are 1a and 1b. Sooners are in the top 5 too.
May 10, 20241 yr 2 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said: I wonder why humans have this great need for some apocalyptic event that is always coming. I don’t get it. Since recorded history started, we know we’ve been predicting some apocalypse- whether it be religious, natural, external/space based, or human caused. To be fair, there have been multiple extinction events on planet Earth, so it's not exactly pure fantasy.
May 10, 20241 yr 5 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said: There a many species I’d rather rid the earth of first. Fire ants and mosquitoes are 1a and 1b. Sooners are in the top 5 too. Well, that's a level of stupid I didn't expect. Hoping it's an attempt at comedy...if so, don't quit your day job, and if not... Yes, ants and mosquitos are destroying the planet. Edited May 10, 20241 yr by DixonHur
May 10, 20241 yr 13 minutes ago, DixonHur said: Well, that's a level of stupid I didn't expect. Hoping it's an attempt at comedy...if so, don't quit your day job, and if not... Yes, ants and mosquitos are destroying the planet. No it wasn’t. The whole Agent Smith was right humans are a virus that should go away is a level of stupid that you should keep confined to the CR.
May 10, 20241 yr You can think humans aren't a virus that need be eradicated while still believing that our march to 10 billion people will have devastating consequences.
May 10, 20241 yr And by will have devastating consequences, I mean is having devastating consequences currently. It's not just a turtle going extinct here or there. Biodiversity loss will harm future generations of humans. So I believe that while population decline may put a financial burden on generations such as my own, fewer people consuming less is a good thing long-term, for both people and the planet. Insect populations plummeting North America has lost 3 BILLION birds All wildlife populations collapsing Massive loss of natural habitat Fisheries are depleted
May 10, 20241 yr 31 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said: No it wasn’t. The whole Agent Smith was right humans are a virus that should go away is a level of stupid that you should keep confined to the CR. Why CR? What's political about it?
May 10, 20241 yr I'm confused if people are unaware of these facts, don't believe them, don't care or don't think that it will impact them or their offspring. It baffles me, honestly.
May 10, 20241 yr 9 minutes ago, hookem2010 said: I'm confused if people are unaware of these facts, don't believe them, don't care or don't think that it will impact them or their offspring. It baffles me, honestly. Because the concept of insect populations and their place in the food chain/world is confusing for some people. National Geographic had a nice gen pop article about insect populations several years ago that was quite informative.
May 10, 20241 yr 39 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said: No it wasn’t. The whole Agent Smith was right humans are a virus that should go away is a level of stupid that you should keep confined to the CR. Um, that was a movie...but our DNA is literally 8% virus. The viruses that helped to make you human (bbc.com)
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