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#2901
7 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

It's a Trump thread.  If he can't let it go, why should we?

 

7 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

Them's is high standards.

Now you're thinking with #bothsides of your brain!

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  • HillCountryBevo
    HillCountryBevo

    Imagine your basis of hating Trump is because of mean tweets, January 6 and “hush money” trial all because liberal media is crooked. Fuck right off. This is my last post in this forum  dumb fucki

  • Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand
    Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

    When you're a court, you just grab their asset, and they let you do it!

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#2902
12 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Probably not actually.  The obstruction occurred in Florida, and 793 relates to "unlawful retention" and to showing them to people. https://www.lawfareblog.com/wheres-venue-risks-charging-mar-lago-case-dc

But, what the fuck, might as well make him make the motion.

Oh shit, unlike a civil case, venue is not waivable, and trying a case in the wrong venue can reverse the conviction.

Just to be clear, are you saying that the venue cannot be moved to Florida? Or are you saying that if they try it in DC and it should have been in Florida, it is reversible?

#2903
11 hours ago, Rimbo said:

It wasn't too difficult:

  1. Hillary was a shitty candidate
    1. She has almost no charisma to speak of
    2. She largely came to her positions of power because of who she married
    3. She did a mediocre to shitty job in those positions of power
    4. She didn't even win the popular vote in the primaries; superdelegates edged her over Bernie
  2. The Democrats ran a lazy campaign where she didn't even visit Wisconsin and Michigan.
    1. The Democrats have been taking the blue collar vote for granted without giving them anything, ever since her husband was in power.
    2. So not only did she do nothing to win them over, but her closest association is with the one man who represented most the betrayal of pro-union/blue-collar ideals (see Point #1)
    3. If they had even bothered with those states they would have likely won them and won the election

 

She was a shitty candidate, but she had more than 3.5 million more votes than Bernie in the Democratic primary.

#2904
9 hours ago, Satchel said:

I don’t think so. Had there been a simultaneous announcement of the ongoing investigation into the Trump campaign, she most likely would have won. You can’t underestimate damage done by Comey going rogue, nor could  she be the miserable candidate you describe and garner the highest popular vote total in history at the time of her defeat.

This is silly, of course she could. Nearly every presidential election has higher turnout than any before it, because our population is always growing. And it's a two person race, so it was absolutely possible for her to win the popular vote despite being a shitty candidate, because her opponent was a huge piece of shit.

If it were possible to generate energy based on bad takes, the bad takes about the 2016 election (both primaries and the general) would give us unlimited free energy until the earth falls into the sun. Literally nearly anything might've been decisive, because it was an incredibly close race in the states that swung the election. It might've been Comey, Russians trolling on facebook, Hillary's shittiness, or the fucking weather. There are plenty of things to learn from 2016, but except from "DON'T IGNORE THE MIDWEST YOU IDIOTS" everyone seems hellbent on not learning anything. 

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#2905

You know what would be great?  If the Cloak Room would re-litigate the 2016 POTUS election for the eleventy-billionth time.

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#2906
2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

You know what would be great?  If the Cloak Room would re-litigate the 2016 POTUS election for the eleventy-billionth time.

Well my friend, you are in luck.

#2907
3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

You know what would be great?  If the Cloak Room would re-litigate the 2016 POTUS election for the eleventy-billionth time.

The minute I saw it brought up again, I knew we were in for 5 pages of:

south park beat a dead horse GIF

#2908
21 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Just to be clear, are you saying that the venue cannot be moved to Florida? Or are you saying that if they try it in DC and it should have been in Florida, it is reversible?

I'm saying it probably belongs in Florida in the first place, and, if it is tried outside Florida, it may be reversible on that ground.

In a civil case, if you don't request a transfer of venue, it is waived, too bad so sad.  But it seems that if Trump doesn't make a motion to transfer it to Florida, a conviction may be reversible on that alone, i.e. that it was brought and tried in the wrong venue.  

Edited by TwiceHorn

#2909

Hey, what's this I hear you Dems are having problems with your midwest election reports?  ;) 

#2910
30 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm saying it probably belongs in Florida in the first place, and, if it is tried outside Florida, it may be reversible on that ground.

In a civil case, if you don't request a transfer of venue, it is waived, too bad so sad.  But it seems that if Trump doesn't make a motion to transfer it to Florida, a conviction may be reversible on that alone, i.e. that it was brought and tried in the wrong venue.  

Not a criminal lawyer, but I would have to think you'd have to preserve error at some point.  While it's not like civil venue that is waived if not raised in first pleading or paper, I'd be surprised if improper venue could be raised for the first time on appeal.

 

ETA - from the DOJ website:

Any defect in venue apparent from the indictment will be waived if the defendant fails to object before pleading guilty or before trial. See United States v. Allen, 24 F.3d 1180, 1830 (10th Cir.), cert. denied, 115 S.Ct. 493 (1994); United States v. Semel, 347 F.2d 228, 229 (4th Cir.), cert. denied, 382 U.S. 840 (1965); United States v. Jones, 162 F.2d 72, 73 (2d Cir. 1947); Fed. R. Crim. P. 12(b)(2). A claim of insufficient evidence to support a finding of venue will be waived if not specifically raised in a motion for acquittal. See United States v. Menendez, 612 F.2d 51 (2d Cir. 1979). See also United States v. Roberts, 618 F.2d 530 (9th Cir.), appeal after remand, 640 F.2d 225, cert. denied, 452 U.S. 942 (1980).

Edited by DDD Dad

#2911
14 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Not a criminal lawyer, but I would have to think you'd have to preserve error at some point.  While it's not like civil venue that is waived if not raised in first pleading or paper, I'd be surprised if improper venue could be raised for the first time on appeal.

 

ETA - from the DOJ website:

Any defect in venue apparent from the indictment will be waived if the defendant fails to object before pleading guilty or before trial. See United States v. Allen, 24 F.3d 1180, 1830 (10th Cir.), cert. denied, 115 S.Ct. 493 (1994); United States v. Semel, 347 F.2d 228, 229 (4th Cir.), cert. denied, 382 U.S. 840 (1965); United States v. Jones, 162 F.2d 72, 73 (2d Cir. 1947); Fed. R. Crim. P. 12(b)(2). A claim of insufficient evidence to support a finding of venue will be waived if not specifically raised in a motion for acquittal. See United States v. Menendez, 612 F.2d 51 (2d Cir. 1979). See also United States v. Roberts, 618 F.2d 530 (9th Cir.), appeal after remand, 640 F.2d 225, cert. denied, 452 U.S. 942 (1980).

Yeah I guess that's if the transfer motion is improperly denied.  Makes sense.

#2912
53 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm saying it probably belongs in Florida in the first place, and, if it is tried outside Florida, it may be reversible on that ground.

In a civil case, if you don't request a transfer of venue, it is waived, too bad so sad.  But it seems that if Trump doesn't make a motion to transfer it to Florida, a conviction may be reversible on that alone, i.e. that it was brought and tried in the wrong venue.  

perhaps i am thinking of another discussion, but i seem to recall violations of the PRA fall under DC's exclusive jurisdiction. Would these charges not be brought under the PRA?

#2913
23 minutes ago, Longhorn94 said:

perhaps i am thinking of another discussion, but i seem to recall violations of the PRA fall under DC's exclusive jurisdiction. Would these charges not be brought under the PRA?

As Jim Trusty loves to say, there's no criminal penalty for violation of the PRA.

If the President wishes to challenge the release of presidential records to the public, on privilege or other grounds, the exclusive venue for doing so is D. D.C.  https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/44/2204

That lawfare article above gives a pretty solid and detailed discussion of venue.  https://www.lawfareblog.com/wheres-venue-risks-charging-mar-lago-case-dc  It's risky outside of Florida.

Edited by TwiceHorn

#2914
14 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

As Jim Trusty loves to say, there's no criminal penalty for violation of the PRA.

If the President wishes to challenge the release of presidential records to the public, on privilege or other grounds, the exclusive venue for doing so is D. D.C.  https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/44/2204

thank you for clearing that up. A Weissman is pretty adamant that Trump will be charged in DC while his assistants will be charged in FL. i wonder how he gets there.

Edited by Longhorn94

#2915
8 minutes ago, Longhorn94 said:

thank you for clearing that up. A Weissman is pretty adamant that Trump will be charged in DC while his assistants will be charged in FL. i wonder how he gets there.

Well, like any forum-shop, I guess, you can file in the preferred venue and make the defendant move to transfer.  It also appears that there's not a transfer mechanism in the criminal code, only dismissal and re-filing. For improper venue, anyway.

Edited by TwiceHorn

#2916

 

Holy shit. Special Counsel Jack Smith was just spotted this morning by NBC News. The man, the myth, the legend is real & he is on a mission to hold Donald Trump accountable. Let’s go!

 

#2918
2 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

She was a shitty candidate, but she had more than 3.5 million more votes than Bernie in the Democratic primary.

meh. details...

#2919
14 hours ago, Rimbo said:

It wasn't too difficult:

  1. Hillary was a shitty candidate
    1. She has almost no charisma to speak of
    2. She largely came to her positions of power because of who she married
    3. She did a mediocre to shitty job in those positions of power
    4. She didn't even win the popular vote in the primaries; superdelegates edged her over Bernie
  2. The Democrats ran a lazy campaign where she didn't even visit Wisconsin and Michigan.
    1. The Democrats have been taking the blue collar vote for granted without giving them anything, ever since her husband was in power.
    2. So not only did she do nothing to win them over, but her closest association is with the one man who represented most the betrayal of pro-union/blue-collar ideals (see Point #1)
    3. If they had even bothered with those states they would have likely won them and won the election

 

I agree with several of your points while I think a couple might be the influence of years of bullshit spewed about her. But to be clear, she absolutely won the primary popular vote and it wasn’t even close. The fact you think that leads me to believe I’m correct about several of the other points you made.

#2920
19 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I agree with several of your points while I think a couple might be the influence of years of bullshit spewed about her. But to be clear, she absolutely won the primary popular vote and it wasn’t even close. The fact you think that leads me to believe I’m correct about several of the other points you made.

There's honestly been as much, if not more, pro-Hillary fan fiction written than anti-Hillary incel rages.

The fact is, if you have the prerequisite charisma required for the job, you can survive an awful lot of bullshit, even legitimate accusations. See also her husband, Reagan, Trump, Obama, Ann Richards.

There's a reason she didn't get the SecState job in Obama's second term: Because Obama needed someone who wasn't complete ass at the job.

#2921
Bill Barr on the classified documents investigation:"This is not a case of the DOJ conducting a witch hunt...This would have gone nowhere had the president just returned the documents, but he jerked them around for a year and a half...There is no excuse for what he did here."

 

#2923
34 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I agree with several of your points while I think a couple might be the influence of years of bullshit spewed about her. But to be clear, she absolutely won the primary popular vote and it wasn’t even close. The fact you think that leads me to believe I’m correct about several of the other points you made.

 

10 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

There's honestly been as much, if not more, pro-Hillary fan fiction written than anti-Hillary incel rages.

The fact is, if you have the prerequisite charisma required for the job, you can survive an awful lot of bullshit, even legitimate accusations. See also her husband, Reagan, Trump, Obama, Ann Richards.

There's a reason she didn't get the SecState job in Obama's second term: Because Obama needed someone who wasn't complete ass at the job.

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#2924
2 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Ok. This is just trolling.

I'm guessing you don't get to the library very often.

You'd be genuinely astonished at the sheer quantity of books, for children and adults, written about her.

#2925
42 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I think a couple might be the influence of years of bullshit spewed about her

The former pre-Trump Republicanism definitely comes out at times.

#2927
On 6/5/2023 at 1:43 PM, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

please let this be where he strokes out.

Before he strokes out he will improve his lie.

#2928
23 hours ago, TexEx15 said:
A Mar-a-Lago employee drained the pool last October & ended up flooding a room where servers w/ video logs were kept. At least one witness has been asked about it, as DOJ sought more surveillance footage that month. News w/ @KatelynPolantz & @jeremyherbhttps://t.co/7QjwHpuBUd
Notable detail in CNN's story: Investigators seized the phone of Mar-a-Lago maintenance worker who drained the pool that led to the flooding of IT room where footage was held. Footage shows Trump aide & same worker moving boxes after the first subpoena.https://t.co/7QjwHpuBUd

 

Trump uses the same pool guy I have? 

#2930
5 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

You know what would be great?  If the Cloak Room would re-litigate the 2016 POTUS election for the eleventy-billionth time.

It’s quite possible that said re-litigation triggers those who thought voting for Trump really couldn’t be all that bad

#2931
NEW: Buried lede: more than 20 members of trump's secret service detail have testified before the documents grand jury in DC in the past few months. https://t.co/k8gixXWJZW

 

#2932
2 hours ago, The Dog said:
Bill Barr on the classified documents investigation:"This is not a case of the DOJ conducting a witch hunt...This would have gone nowhere had the president just returned the documents, but he jerked them around for a year and a half...There is no excuse for what he did here."

 


this treasonous douche should be rotting in a jail cell or swinging from a rope 

#2933

 For the four years that Clinton served as Secretary of State, her approval rating often topped 60%. Twice she topped 65%. It’s an old wives tale that she has always been wildly unpopular, kept alive by those who feared her inevitable ascendancy to the presidency. A withering, unrelenting campaign to smear in to her into oblivion worked brilliantly:

 

 

#2934
5 minutes ago, Satchel said:

 For the four years that Clinton served as Secretary of State, her approval rating often topped 60%. Twice she topped 65%. It’s an old wives tale that she has always been wildly unpopular, kept alive by those who feared her inevitable ascendancy to the presidency. A withering, unrelenting campaign to smear in to her into oblivion worked brilliantly:

 

 

Hillary talk in the (checks notes) Trump indictment thread not going away.

#2935
19 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:


this treasonous douche should be rotting in a jail cell or swinging from a rope 

If Bob Barr had a single atom of loyalty to the Republic within him, he'd eat the barrel of a .357, point it up, and pull the trigger till he couldn't pull it anymore.

#2936
1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

If Bob Barr had a single atom of loyalty to the Republic within him, he'd eat the barrel of a .357, point it up, and pull the trigger till he couldn't pull it anymore.

That's quite a picture you painted there, brisket.

#2938
4 minutes ago, The Dog said:
NEW: Buried lede: more than 20 members of trump's secret service detail have testified before the documents grand jury in DC in the past few months. https://t.co/k8gixXWJZW

 


Lying bastards that are loyal to trump, not their country 

#2939
14 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

If Bob Barr had a single atom of loyalty to the Republic within him, he'd eat the barrel of a .357, point it up, and pull the trigger till he couldn't pull it anymore.

After using it on Trump.  Hell, if he'd use it on Trump, he could skip the rest.

#2940
15 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

If Bob Barr had a single atom of loyalty to the Republic within him, he'd eat the barrel of a .357, point it up, and pull the trigger till he couldn't pull it anymore.

Better use a .45, just in case 

#2943

Yeah, not killing yourself with a shot through your head is a really shitty way to have to live

#2945
12 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Glad to see I'm not the only one who confuses Bob and Bill Barr all the time. 

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#2949

Great summary / reqs here …..

ARRESTMAS THREAD 1/So Trump attorneys led by Trusty McTrustface tried to beg that Jack Smith not indict Trump. They failed. Trump learned yesterday he'll be arrested & go to prison. He's freaking out. This is good of courseSo what do we know about Espionage-A-Lago?#Arrestmas

 

#2950

On the obstruction of justice, for the 101 last classified docus, and Trump flooding the video room, that is 20 years per document. You can add 2,020 years on top of the 1,625 years we had earlier = 3,645 years
 

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