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1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Taking Hugo's review as essentially correct, I don't think the focused nature of the plea is a big deal.  Manafort is cooperating.  Most likely, that means he's cooperating on everything.  Not having Trump Tower meetings, etc. laid bare in court is of little consequence.

To that end, let's say Mueller comes out with a report that says dotus was complicit in x, y, and z.  Would it say "according to Manafort" or "according to cooperating witnesses"?

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It was locker room collusion.

So who do we think he's gonna testify against?  My bets are:

1. Roger Stone
2. Donald Trump Jr.

5 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

To that end, let's say Mueller comes out with a report that says dotus was complicit in x, y, and z.  Would it say "according to Manafort" or "according to cooperating witnesses"?

It’ll say “according to anyone with an IQ above room temperature which precludes the President and 80% of the Republican Party...”

1 minute ago, kevwun said:

So who do we think he's gonna testify against?  My bets are:

1. Roger Stone
2. Donald Trump Jr.

I think he'll testify against everyone.  I don't think he gets to pick and choose where he's forced to sing.

Right, but they don't need him for everyone.  They wanted Manafort for the big fish.  He knows who knew what and when which is going to fuck them on their previous senate testimonies.  Trump Jr. should be shitting bricks.

Edited by kevwun

so Manafort gonna live out his days in exile somewhere? Surely he just became Mueller's most prized witness and people will be actively trying to find Manafort. This could get ugly

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Well over a year ago, I said the two people I’d want Mueller to flip:

1. Paul Manafort 

2. Jared Kushner

 

It was mostly Jared and the kids that got Manafort on board and ousted Corey Lewindowski.  

Jared also ran the digital arm of the campaign and traveled with Trump on the campaign trail.

Jared was also in the Trump Tower meeting with Manafort and Jr.

Jared has miraculously flowed under the radar throughout much of this mess while Don jr and Stone are seen as top targets.

There’s also all the unresolved stuff regarding Jared’s finances.

Jared, Jared, Jared

and the 'back channels' meeting with Flynn and Kislyak

Just now, retread said:

and the 'back channels' meeting with Flynn and Kislyak

And Jared’s involvement of firing Comey.  

According to the Woodward book, it was the FBI looking into Jared’s finances that was problematic around the Comey termination 

Erik Prince and DeVos better get the axe at the end of all of this as well.

A family member is going to be indicted.  I think we can be just about certain of that now.

Stone prediction markets moving a bit ~5%. Kushner market is value priced at 14cents. Both expire 12/31/18.

17 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

It was locker room collusion.

This is a great joke

5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Stone prediction markets moving a bit ~5%. Kushner market is value priced at 14cents. Both expire 12/31/18.

Wild speculation: I think Kushner is already cooperating and has been for about a year.  It would explain so much.  Like why did he hire a PR crisis management team? Why did he get security clearance?  Why did his attorneys disclose the Trump Tower meeting and throw Don jr under the bus?  Why did Giuliani say Jared was “expendable”?  Why are there no statements on the record from Kushner ever except that carefully prepared lawyerly statement?  Why is Kushner one of the few witnesses that had multiple meetings with Mueller’s team that we know about?   Why isn’t there a shitload of heat on Kushner in the media?  

Just asking questions.

Reading the plea, the international stuff is the most interesting. The “Hapsburg Group” included former former Austrian chancellor, Italian PM, and Polish PM - who was the “designated representative of the President of the European Parliament” and was secretly on Manafort’s payroll lobbying in the US (and Europe I assume). That’s the blueprint folks and I doubt Manafort threw it out later. Manafort also coordinated with an Israeli official to release a statement to pressure Obama.

Also, it makes it clear the subcontracted lobbyists (Podesta probably as well as others) clearly knew they were working for Ukraine.

That would be the most pages of any cooperation agreement so far. 

Gates was 12 pages.  Flynn and Papadopoulos < 11 pages.

Probably means nothing tho

14 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I don’t think Manafort is cooperating.  I think he’s straight up going to admit he committed the crimes he’s charged with, avoid the trial, and bank on a pardon before January 20, 2021

Gladly eating crow on this speculation.

So much for positioning for a pardon.

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Gladly eating crow on this speculation.

So much for positioning for a pardon.

Put me in the "I admit I was flat-out wrong" on this one group, too.

I thought he'd never cooperate, and just do a straight guilty plea.  I'm genuinely surprised.

admitting you're wrong is always good. however, no one can blame you, because we are in an alternate dimension and this is new to everyone. the handicappers are having a helluva time keeping up

I guess DOTUS thought he had sent enough assurances of a pardon through Twitter.

Do we assume Manafort has been cooperating for awhile now?

 

Can this be a power play to force trump to pardon him?

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN BITCHES!!!

This couldn’t be any more true after all these assholes are in orange jump suits.

Can you imagine how pale Dotard is gonna look after he stops his weekly orange spray tan?

Glorious.

If we didn't have two trials, I bet we don't have a cooperation deal.  Manafort would have just charged in to the gunfire of all charges in the first and be locked up forever.  Convicting him in one trial first made him lose his delusions before the second.

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Well over a year ago, I said the two people I’d want Mueller to flip:

1. Paul Manafort 

2. Jared Kushner

 

It was mostly Jared and the kids that got Manafort on board and ousted Corey Lewindowski.  

Jared also ran the digital arm of the campaign and traveled with Trump on the campaign trail.

Jared was also in the Trump Tower meeting with Manafort and Jr.

Jared has miraculously flowed under the radar throughout much of this mess while Don jr and Stone are seen as top targets.

There’s also all the unresolved stuff regarding Jared’s finances.

Jared, Jared, Jared

The Galleria of Treason.  He went to Jared's.

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Well over a year ago, I said the two people I’d want Mueller to flip:

1. Paul Manafort 

2. Jared Kushner

 

It was mostly Jared and the kids that got Manafort on board and ousted Corey Lewindowski.  

Jared also ran the digital arm of the campaign and traveled with Trump on the campaign trail.

Jared was also in the Trump Tower meeting with Manafort and Jr.

Jared has miraculously flowed under the radar throughout much of this mess while Don jr and Stone are seen as top targets.

There’s also all the unresolved stuff regarding Jared’s finances.

Jared, Jared, Jared

Why let Jared flip?  All these assholes deserve hard time.  I'd actually rather see Jared and Jr take more of the hit than Trump Sr.  It isn't justice to let them walk away with a hand slap while allowing the Trump and Kushner orgs to continue to operate as corrupt criminal enterprises just so they can rat on a 72 year old man.   Yes, Sr is technically at the top of the ladder, but he's easily manipulated by the Jareds, Manaforts, Bannons, and Putins of the world.  At the end of the day, who is actually the "kingpin," the manipulator or the manipulatee?

Plus, they'll love Jared in prison.

Just think of what they must already have on this crime syndicate, that would cause these guys to surprise us all and agree to cooperate.

5 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Why let Jared flip

Only if he was one of the first people to cooperate.  Otherwise throw the book at him.

I’m guessing we have officially reached “everyone colludes, what’s the big deal” stage of GOP talking points 

As much as I'd love to see all these people hang, I'm much more interested in making sure that they are never, ever near any real power ever again and that our government is purged of these treasonous, bigoted fucksticks.

Also, very happy to have been wrong about Manafort.  I was sure he wouldn't cooperate and was angling for a pardon.

They've already floated the collusion isn't a crime trial balloons.

4 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

As much as I'd love to see all these people hang, I'm much more interested in making sure that they are never, ever near any real power ever again and that our government is purged of these treasonous, bigoted fucksticks.

Also, very happy to have been wrong about Manafort.  I was sure he wouldn't cooperate and was angling for a pardon.

Trump doesn't know how to enforce loyalty.  Its one of his big failings as a crime boss.  You either take care of your people or you "take care of your people."  He does neither.  Of course everyone is gonna flip.

I want NY state to start digging into corrupt business transactions too, but there's far too much dirty money in Manhattan that would go down with Trump and Kushner, so all the focus is on Russia and Russian money.

Edited by FondrenRoad

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Sigh, the first trial was fascinating and that was about taxes and bank fraud.  Manafort clearly wanted to avoid the second trial at all costs.  Moreover, it was Manafort’s bizarre decision to separate the trials. Why? We will never know but looking at the evidence list for the second trial indicated a lot of shit was going to come out.  

I wasn’t looking for a smoking gun to emerge from the second trial but a shitload of context, background, and methods were certain to be made public in trial two and it would have driven Trump nuts.

That alone would have been satisfying.

Fair enough.  That's why I said "probably."  Seemed like you were counting on Jackson to open up the DC trial to let all sorts of Trumpian smut in.

Can't disagree with the rest of it.

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46 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Interesting take from Marcy Wheeler:

Checkmate: The Manafort Cooperation is Pardon Proof

If Mueller completes this investigation leaving no doubt of criminal activity from this administration while at the same time paying for %80 of it with seized cash from Russian money laundering schemes, he should be anointed as King to a newly formed department called the Pimpingest Pimps Who Have Ever Pimped So Fucking Hard.

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Now that right there is what you expect in a plea agreement that contemplates cooperation, including the 5k1.1. downward departure for cooperation.

This one is a no-doubter.  Unlike some of the others, this spells out the cooperation and the quid pro quo:  to get the gubmint to come off 20 years by delivering the goods.

I hope someone writes a book that covers Trump's reaction when he learned that Manafort flipped.

8 minutes ago, Chooky said:

If Mueller completes this investigation leaving no doubt of criminal activity from this administration while at the same time paying for %80 of it with seized cash from Russian money laundering schemes, he should be anointed as King to a newly formed department called the Pimpingest Pimps Who Have Ever Pimped So Fucking Hard.

Mr Mueller, your security detail has arrived...

pimps.jpg

28 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

I’m guessing we have officially reached “everyone colludes, what’s the big deal” stage of GOP talking points 

All it will take is one Democrat being dirty to cleanse this enormous crime organization of all of its sins.

Manafort to remain in jail while he cooperates. Probably the safest place for him, really. A lot harder to be poisoned or “fall” out a y’all window under 24 hr surveillance 

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

That would be the most pages of any cooperation agreement so far. 

Gates was 12 pages.  Flynn and Papadopoulos < 11 pages.

Probably means nothing tho

Gotta get the $/pg numbers down just in case Trump tweets about it.

5 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Manafort to remain in jail while he cooperates. Probably the safest place for him, really. A lot harder to be poisoned or “fall” out a y’all window under 24 hr surveillance 

Probably, but they might serve tea in jail.

Just now, FondrenRoad said:

Probably, but they might serve tea in jail.

If by tea you mean "poisoned dick", then I agree.  Bet Manafort never thought he would go out like that.

The following info is truly amazing.  Seriously, step out of the fact that we are experiencing this in real-time, and imagine reading this about an administration in the history books.  The following people have either pleaded guilty to crimes, are presently cooperating witnesses, or both:

Manafort - campaign chair

Gates - campaign adviser

Cohen - the POTUS's long-time personal attorney

Flynn - National Security Adviser

Trump Org CFO - CFO of the President's personal business

National Enquirer - Media entity working in partnership with the POTUS

 

You're reading that in a history book -- what do you think of that administration?  Imagine if this was true about, say, Obama, or W, or Clinton.  We'd be referring to that admin as a criminal enterprise, not a political entity of any repute or authority.

The White House is presently being occupied and run by a criminal enterprise.  That matter has now been placed beyond debate.

Edited by Brisketexan

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