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Featured Replies

14 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

I would be shocked if it was CIWS that engaged.  CIWS only engages threats with very specific flight profile and closing speed indexed to own ship.  It is a 100% self-defense weapon and cannot be used to engage targets headed towards other ships in company.  I highly doubt that a friendly F/A-18F would fly a path towards the CG that would meet engagement criteria for CIWS.  My Navy SWO speculation is that this smells a lot like VINCENNES incident where an operator had one contact hooked but was reading data for another contact and engaged with SM-2 based on the wrong data.    

But what country's piloted aircraft are we even shooting at without being shot at first? Do Yemen rebels even have piloted aircraft?

Edited by aggie08

1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

But what country's aircraft are we even shooting at without being shot at first?

Ever hear of Houthis?

  • Author
3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

But what country's aircraft are we even shooting at without being shot at first?

Remember that they, the Houti's have been launching shit into the Red Sea for a bit now. It is an active theater, just not declared a war.

USN has been intercepting missiles weekly that are being shot at them and civilian shipping.

 

Edited by InkaUtexas
Guadaloopy beat me to it.

3 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

Ever hear of Houthis?

Right, but do they even have piloted aircraft? Or just drones?

Edited by aggie08

4 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Right, but do they even have piloted aircraft? Or just drones?

You can't tell from radar if an AC is piloted or not.  You can get clues from size and flight profile, but it can't distinguish piloted vs unpiloted.  Aegis is good, but not that good.  

But this also goes back to my theory... operator had one contact "hooked," somehow got mixed up, and made engagement decision based on data from another contact.  That's what happened with VINCENNES.

Or is your theory that they had a drone or missile targeted but accidentally read the data from the F/A-18? Would the data from dissimilar targets share any similarities that would potentially explain an immediate red flag not being raised?

 

Edited by aggie08
Too late, you just answered. Thanks.

  • Author
7 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Right, but do they even have piloted aircraft? Or just drones?

They have a full assortment of Surface to Surface Missiles. Like SCUDs and SCUD lite. They have fucked up quite a few ships.

 

6 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Right, but do they even have piloted aircraft? Or just drones?

The Houthi rebels have one fighter jet, a single F-5. Remember that time they showed it off in a Twitter post last year, flying to the soundtrack of Top Gun?

chris-farley.gif

4 minutes ago, bolverk said:

The Houthi rebels have one fighter jet, a single F-5. Remember that time they showed it off in a Twitter post last year, flying to the soundtrack of Top Gun?

chris-farley.gif

Ain’t nothin’ bout a Houthi bomber?

34 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

You can't tell from radar if an AC is piloted or not.  You can get clues from size and flight profile, but it can't distinguish piloted vs unpiloted.  Aegis is good, but not that good.  

But this also goes back to my theory... operator had one contact "hooked," somehow got mixed up, and made engagement decision based on data from another contact.  That's what happened with VINCENNES.

The only thing I don't like about that theory is the two radar contacts would be coming from completely different directions.  

The guy in charge of sorting this out:

 

image.gif.7b07c77c5e068e6940f51070fe93902b.gif

Edited by Parliament

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

The Houthi rebels have one fighter jet, a single F-5. Remember that time they showed it off in a Twitter post last year, flying to the soundtrack of Top Gun?

chris-farley.gif

Uncover Tom Cruise GIF by Top Gun

9 hours ago, Guadaloopy said:

I would be shocked if it was CIWS that engaged.  CIWS only engages threats with very specific flight profile and closing speed indexed to own ship.  It is a 100% self-defense weapon and cannot be used to engage targets headed towards other ships in company.  I highly doubt that a friendly F/A-18F would fly a path towards the CG that would meet engagement criteria for CIWS.  My Navy SWO speculation is that this smells a lot like VINCENNES incident where an operator had one contact hooked but was reading data for another contact and engaged with SM-2 based on the wrong data.    

Makes sense.  I kept as far away from you SWOs as possible.   LOL

This video has a good discussion by two experienced former-Navy pilots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoYOsX2GpX4

Not a pilot, but imagine being basically on or near final approach, low and slow, at night, and you see a missile launch from a cruiser right under/in front of you. For the plane that was hit, the crew saw it coming and ejected pre-emptively. The second F-18 either dodged the second missile, and/or its guidance was terminated by the ship before it hit.  But his was all happening at short ranges so the missile flight time (and the time the crews had to react) would have been only seconds.

 

 

1 hour ago, Paper_jam said:

This video has a good discussion by two experienced former-Navy pilots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoYOsX2GpX4

Not a pilot, but imagine being basically on or near final approach, low and slow, at night, and you see a missile launch from a cruiser right under/in front of you. For the plane that was hit, the crew saw it coming and ejected pre-emptively. The second F-18 either dodged the second missile, and/or its guidance was terminated by the ship before it hit.  But his was all happening at short ranges so the missile flight time (and the time the crews had to react) would have been only seconds.

I saw this hit my feed but haven't had time to listen to it all. They did mention that the Gettysburg fired two SM-2's, so it sounds like they fired on a returning flight - not just a singleton

The crew of the Gettysburg also knows where it's going.  Admirals mast!

2 hours ago, Paper_jam said:

This video has a good discussion by two experienced former-Navy pilots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoYOsX2GpX4

Not a pilot, but imagine being basically on or near final approach, low and slow, at night, and you see a missile launch from a cruiser right under/in front of you. For the plane that was hit, the crew saw it coming and ejected pre-emptively. The second F-18 either dodged the second missile, and/or its guidance was terminated by the ship before it hit.  But his was all happening at short ranges so the missile flight time (and the time the crews had to react) would have been only seconds.

 

 

I'm only surprised that Mooch didn't title the video "Deep Intel on Navy Shooting Down Itself."

4 hours ago, FartingMonk said:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/second-us-navy-fighter-jet-narrowly-avoided-being-shot-down-friendly-fire-incident-source

 

Gettysburg almost shot down 2 jets that night and they have confirmed they fucking fired missiles at them

Wow.  Unbelievable.  My original thought was that it wasn't a missile since they were able to eject.  The crew of the Gettysburg better hope that they never run into anyone from that squadron.  

6 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Wow.  Unbelievable.  My original thought was that it wasn't a missile since they were able to eject.  The crew of the Gettysburg better hope that they never run into anyone from that squadron.  

For sure the Red Rippers and the Gettysburg are sworn enemies until the end of time.  

Honestly, guys, I appreciate the occasional demonstration of all the cool shit that our tax dollars are funding that can make things go boom.

38 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

The Gettysburg was stood down, right?

I was told by my buddy at SUBLANT that they got told to go home.

So does that leave the carrier group with a degraded air defense? It's a Ticonderoga, dunno if they have another air defense ship as capable** as that in the group.

** when shooting at enemies

 

 

10 hours ago, Paper_jam said:

So does that leave the carrier group with a degraded air defense?

If the Gettysburg is going home, I would say it was upgraded.

  • Author

No shore leave in Italy for these guys. Crew is gonna be pissed at the team that fired off the missile.

But the Doc will be happy and his antibiotic supply will last longer.

Go NAVY Beat Navy!

I've posted these MilSim'ers before in the Ukraine war thread, they did a pretty solid recreation of the friendly fire incedent - including a reading of an honest to god primary account of the event from the pilot in the seat. The video shouldbe timestamped to the reading of the pilot's statements.

"for reasons we don't understand, both pilots posted on twitter their view of what happened. .... It's gone now but we've got screenshots"

Pretty cool that they fully recreated the antidrone mission the FA-18's were tasked with, all the way to AAR on the way home and friendly fire incedent

Edited by Captainant

  • 2 months later...

Bump. Ward Carrol has a new fantastic deep-dive interview with a retired USN Captain who commanded an Aegis CG in the gulf war and has been under attack in a similar threat profile. This is an excellent beat-by-beat breakdown of how this happened. Seems like the Gettysburg is a crappy ship - she rated below average in training and took NINE YEARS to get out of refit

TL:DR - swiss cheese failure happened. Gettysburg had several critical information fusion systems INOP, which led to the air warfare system automatically firing two missiles at the first F18. It was not a personnel failure on the Gettysburg, and she was sent to battle with critical systems known inop.

Edited by Captainant

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