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No flaps, no landing gear, and looks to me like a short runway if you know the gear isnt down
 

 

Send like we need a mega-thread "planes are falling from the sky". Otherwise the board could be clogged with individual card threads; or maybe a plane crash board.

People on the plane in that video thinking “so far so good….so far so good…..”.   Then, BOOM!

that plane was coming in super hot. that must have been their only option, but damn. they hit the end super hard. 

 

Tragic.

15 year-old 737-800...ADS-B tracking had it landing to the north on Runway 01 but clearly from the wreck it was landing to the south on Runway 19, at a seemingly much higher rate of speed than normal.  Supposedly 737s like this are tough to land gear-up given the plane has a manual gear deploy capability that gravity drops and locks the gear, usable even in situations of complete hydraulic failure.

6 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

Yes 

Why would they put a wall at the end of a runway?

 

/somewhat sarcastically

  • Popular Post
8 minutes ago, dcbc said:

Why would they put a wall at the end of a runway?

 

/somewhat sarcastically

Putting a wall at the front of the runway would be silly

 

19 minutes ago, dcbc said:

Why would they put a wall at the end of a runway?

 

/somewhat sarcastically

It’s well past the end of the runway.   
 

 

11 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Putting a wall at the front of the runway would be silly

 

In this case, I don't know if it would matter.

Should have had some bollards at the end of the runway.

I gotta be honest... I am gonna be pretty surprised if anyone "walked" away from this one.  survivors yes... but relatively unhurt.... unlikely. 

 

 

Quote

Fire authorities say that among the 181 people aboard the Jeju Air flight from Bangkok, all but two are presumed dead after the aircraft crashed during an emergency landing at Muan International Airport in South Korea on Sunday morning, according to Yonhap News.

Rescue teams continue to search the wreckage where more bodies remain inside the fuselage. Two survivors, one passenger and one crew member, were pulled from the tail section and are receiving treatment at a nearby hospital.

The Boeing 737-800 attempted a belly landing at around 9:03am local time after its landing gear reportedly failed to deploy.

Witnesses reported hearing loud “bang” noises before the aircraft struck the airport’s perimeter wall, breaking into two pieces and bursting into flames. Local broadcaster MBC aired footage that appears to show a bird strike incident as the plane was descending.

If the death toll is confirmed, this would be South Korea’s worst domestic civil aviation disaster and marks the first major casualty incident involving a low-cost carrier in the country’s history, reports the JoongAng Ilbo.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/dec/29/south-korea-plane-crash-casualties-reported-after-jeju-air-flight-veers-off-runway-at-muan-airport-live-updates

Well, that sucks.  I was watching the video and thinking "that doesn't look so bad, he got it down, just gotta slo . . . oh shit".  

I can't imagine what it would be like in such a situation.

Fucking Russians!

It sure doesn't look like flaps are deployed.  Wouldn't you want to slow your speed as much as possible before trying to set it down with no gear?

14 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Wouldn't you want to slow your speed as much as possible before trying to set it down with no gear?

Depends on how fast you want to get to the scene of the crash.

19 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, that sucks.  I was watching the video and thinking "that doesn't look so bad, he got it down, just gotta slo . . . oh shit".  

I can't imagine what it would be like in such a situation.

Yeah, wonder what the hell happened at the last second that they went with that runway, rather than try to find a large open area.

They sure as hell seemed mostly in control of things other than the lack of flaps/gear - it wasn't like those dudes in the plane shot down by the Russians, who were trying to use the engines to steer the plane and regulate altitude - the Koreans seemed like they had it lined up perfectly with the runway.

30 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

It sure doesn't look like flaps are deployed.  Wouldn't you want to slow your speed as much as possible before trying to set it down with no gear?

Yes, but it's possible that the same thing that kept the gear from deploying also kept the flaps from deploying (hydraulic or electrical issue).  Although jets like this normally have quite a bit of redundancy and flexibility to let you work around some of those problems.

Or maybe SOP for a gear-up landing calls for a lesser flap setting for some other reason... no idea.

 

 

 

Looking at it again, I also don't see them using the spoilers/speedbrakes on the top of the wing surface. Which seems kinda odd but probably would not have mattered without gear/brakes.  But may all go back to a major combined systems failure with hydraulics or something

 

They sure got it lined up well if they were facing a larger more encompassing hydraulics issue.

4 hours ago, Surly Bevo said:

It sure doesn't look like flaps are deployed.  Wouldn't you want to slow your speed as much as possible before trying to set it down with no gear?

Flaps aren’t used to slow the plane.  Flaps are designed to increase the wing’s lift and prevent stalling at slower speeds, which is why they are deployed during landing. Speed brakes are used to slow the plane down at landing. Flaps are on the trailing edge of the wing and extend downward.  Speed brakes are on the surface of the wing and pop up.  

At least it’s looking like the tv series Air Disasters is going to have plenty of material for the upcoming 25th season

Edited by NeverMarryAStripper

57 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Flaps aren’t used to slow the plane.  Flaps are designed to increase the wing’s lift and prevent stalling at slower speeds, which is why they are deployed during landing. Speed brakes are used to slow the plane down at landing. Flaps are on the trailing edge of the wing and extend downward.  Speed brakes are on the surface of the wing and pop up.  

At least it’s looking like the tv series Air Disasters is going to have plenty of material for the upcoming 25th season

Flaps are also used on leading edge too* Not on this particular design series, though. 

Edited by Mother mopar

7 hours ago, McCroskey said:

Tragic.

15 year-old 737-800...ADS-B tracking had it landing to the north on Runway 01 but clearly from the wreck it was landing to the south on Runway 19, at a seemingly much higher rate of speed than normal.  Supposedly 737s like this are tough to land gear-up given the plane has a manual gear deploy capability that gravity drops and locks the gear, usable even in situations of complete hydraulic failure.

Username checks out.

6 hours ago, Telegraph_it said:

Damn. 
 

 

 

The remaining 179 seouls*

Serious face, that’s awful. Those poor passengers probably thought they had a damn good shot skidding along. 

3 hours ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Flaps aren’t used to slow the plane.  Flaps are designed to increase the wing’s lift and prevent stalling at slower speeds, which is why they are deployed during landing. Speed brakes are used to slow the plane down at landing. Flaps are on the trailing edge of the wing and extend downward.  Speed brakes are on the surface of the wing and pop up.  

At least it’s looking like the tv series Air Disasters is going to have plenty of material for the upcoming 25th season

Flaps also add drag and do slow the the plane down

10 hours ago, AbeFroman said:

ho le fuk

Took 3 hours to get the correct reply, and we have yet to get the followup:

Sum Ting Wong

 

6 hours ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Flaps aren’t used to slow the plane.  Flaps are designed to increase the wing’s lift and prevent stalling at slower speeds, which is why they are deployed during landing. Speed brakes are used to slow the plane down at landing. Flaps are on the trailing edge of the wing and extend downward.  Speed brakes are on the surface of the wing and pop up.  

At least it’s looking like the tv series Air Disasters is going to have plenty of material for the upcoming 25th season

Flaps allow you to maintain flight at a lower airspeed....so yea they don't slow the plane in a "braking" sense like you would with a car but they help you land at a lower speed than you otherwise would be able to without stalling.  And if you had no landing gear you would probably want to land at as slow a speed as you possibly could....

Edited by Surly Bevo

1 hour ago, Parliament said:

Took 3 hours to get the correct reply, and we have yet to get the followup:

Sum Ting Wong

 

wee tu lo

10 minutes ago, Wally Pryor said:

How in the hell did two people survive that? 

Both at the tail of the plane, so some dissipation of energy I would guess. 
 

does make me think of that crash back in the 80s I think where only one infant survived, and the family never released her name. It could be any random woman of approximately correct age that any of us have talked with. Or did she come forward at some point?

Edited by Pato del Muerto

They would have probably fared better with this kind of perimeter

image.thumb.png.5cb3d9a73bf38dc2901a366907b1b68a.png

Edited by Surly Bevo

I would think there is some sort of checklist for this sort of thing that would include flap settings and trust reversal utilization. @Your Momand @DaysOff would probably know but I understand if they want to stay away from this discussion 

None of this makes sense. Definitely a wait and see accident.

2 hours ago, Parliament said:

Took 3 hours to get the correct reply, and we have yet to get the followup:

Sum Ting Wong

 

 

ting.jpg

52 minutes ago, millhouse said:

I would think there is some sort of checklist for this sort of thing that would include flap settings and trust reversal utilization. @Your Momand @DaysOff would probably know but I understand if they want to stay away from this discussion 

Yes, that would all been in the landing checklist, but possibly the gear failure was a symptom of a more widespread system failure.  Will all be in the NYSB report in a few months.  Inability to deploy flaps might be why they were forced to land at a higher speed to avoid stalling.

Edited by NeverMarryAStripper

1 hour ago, Surly Bevo said:

They would have probably fared better with this kind of perimeter

They were saying on CNN early this am that the aircraft came in much too high and touched down much further down the runway than normal, leaving little distance for stopping. At that speed and touching down that late, they would have needed a helluva lot more room off the end of the runway. Had they touched down much further back, they might have had a chance, but who knows. Not sure if thrust reversers were working either given that the other systems seem to have been down and given that they might have been damaged touching down without gear. Without them, I'm guessing it would be tough - but that runway is 3km long, so who knows. 

They also said the tower had given them a warning about reported birds/birdstrikes near the airport, and showed video of what looked to me like a birdstrike on the right engine. There's also some unconfirmed  talk of multiple birdstrikes knocking both engines out. They declared a Mayday about 1 minute after receiving that warning, without giving more info. Probably won't know much about that until they get the box data and the cockpit voice recorder.

Edited by wood

If both engines were out, they wouldn’t have had any electrical power for thrust reversers etc.  it takes a little while to start the APU to regain electrical power so they might not have had time before landing. Dead stick landings are very difficult in modern airliners.

Edited by NeverMarryAStripper

4 hours ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

If both engines were out, they wouldn’t have had any electrical power for thrust reversers etc.  it takes a little while to start the APU to regain electrical power so they might not have had time before landing. Dead stick landings are very difficult in modern airliners.

Yep. With both engines gone, that would probably explain why they didn't/couldn't go around for another approach after coming in so high. I can't imagine how difficult a dead-stick landing would be in that thing. If that's what it was, in my layman's opinion, it was probably a pretty heroic effort in the cockpit just to make as good of an approach as they did.

Edited by wood

  • Popular Post
2 hours ago, Wally Pryor said:

How in the hell did two people survive that? 

Obviously by jumping up in the air right before impact.

Interesting detail, the wall the plane slammed into was actually the localizer for ILS approaches. Weird that it's so sturdily built

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