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Featured Replies

Mom passed away. Mom "simplified things' by saying just divide everything 3 ways

No will. 2 other brothers who defer almost anything "official" or "business related" to me.  As of right now, there are no disputes, but that can change faster than a humingbird's heartbeat.

I have access to her bank account, with survivorship, no POD. No other assets.  Income is SSA and a pension.

Her paying of yearly taxes is questionable( don't get me started, but I need to confirm the situation.

What kind of attorney should I seek, even if it is just an hour or two to ask my questions and cross my I's dot my Ts, so shit is squared away down the road?  What kind of session do I ask for? How do avoid getting fucked on shit I don't need?
i welcome surly bullshit answers, as well; but could use some legit advice too.  Thanks.

Sorry for your loss.

Plenty of knowledge around here, I’m sure someone can help and get you headed in the right direction.

1 hour ago, Iceman said:

Mom passed away. Mom "simplified things' by saying just divide everything 3 ways

No will. 2 other brothers who defer almost anything "official" or "business related" to me.  As of right now, there are no disputes, but that can change faster than a humingbird's heartbeat.

I have access to her bank account, with survivorship, no POD. No other assets.  Income is SSA and a pension.

Her paying of yearly taxes is questionable( don't get me started, but I need to confirm the situation.

What kind of attorney should I seek, even if it is just an hour or two to ask my questions and cross my I's dot my Ts, so shit is squared away down the road?  What kind of session do I ask for? How do avoid getting fucked on shit I don't need?
i welcome surly bullshit answers, as well; but could use some legit advice too.  Thanks.

My condolences. You need to talk with a probate/estates attorney. What you'll need from there will depend on the amount and type of assets.  If there was no will, then what she wanted is largely irrelevant. 

Condolences for your loss. Definitely get a local probate/estate attorney for where she lives. Since she has no will, you're going to have to prove heirship which the attorney will help you with. You'll probably need someone to go to the probate court to have your granted that authority. You'll need lots of death certificates to claim any outstanding insurance policies, her bank account, pension, and SSA. Hopefully, she put you or your siblings as the beneficiaries in the event of her passing but probably not. Not sure if she owns her home or automobile but you'll also need to take over those so you can liquidate anything or deal with the leftover balances if any. 

  • Author

No assets.

I am already on her bank account, with survivorship, no POD.

I'm mostly worried about past taxes and/ or other debtors.  Want to make sure I do it right without donating needlessly to attorney golf club/ bourbon fund.

Part of the frustration with my mom and my relationship is how she decided in her head that things were settled and divided three ways( it isn't easy,) and her funeral was set up and paid for( it isn't.) She basically ignored every bit of financial advice I ever gave her and chose to go the path of least resistance.  I've shared parts of it in the past on the board.  It sucks.  Once this is settled, a big fucking burden will be off my plate.

Sorry for your loss. 

A probate proceeding would take care of any creditor's claims, to the detriment of that bank account.  You are also supposed to file a final income tax return and an estate tax return even if none is payable, but only if the estate exceeds 

$13,990,000

 

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/frequently-asked-questions-on-estate-taxes

 https://www.irs.gov/help/ita/how-do-i-file-a-deceased-persons-tax-return

In the absence of a probate, not really sure what happens.  At least in theory, only assets of the estate would be liable for creditor claims.  But once distributed to heirs and commingled with their funds, possibly more could be subject to creditor claims.

My Dad passed away with only a monthly balance of a couple hundred dollars on the credit card.  I logged in to pay it and it wouldn't let me.  I called and they had somehow received notice of his death and closed the account, and took like $50 in lieu of the couple hundred owed, right then and there. It was insane.

In an actual probate, if a creditor files an unsecured claim, they can usually be bought off for pennies on the dollar to avoid having to make an appearance and fight for some share of the assets.  If the appointed administrator fails to properly do all this, s/he can become liable for portions of any debts.

 

 

Don’t have anything intelligent to offer on the estate distribution, but sorry about your mom’s passing.

@TwiceHorn could a SEA/Small Estate Affidavit apply here?  I vaguely remember a friend doing a few years ago, but do not know all the details it involves.  I'll hang up and get a pencil for some notes. 

28 minutes ago, Bevo&Pevo said:

@TwiceHorn could a SEA/Small Estate Affidavit apply here?  I vaguely remember a friend doing a few years ago, but do not know all the details it involves.  I'll hang up and get a pencil for some notes. 

Yeah it could.  Not sure it's necessary, though.  I think that helps with property titles, like cars and real estate and even accounts when there's no survivorship, or POD, or tenants in common.

But, slorch should talk to a lawdog.

This isn't my area, but I have been administrator of both my parents estates and am an educated observer.

https://texaslawhelp.org/article/small-estate-affidavits  That might be just the ticket.

Edited by TwiceHorn

That Texas Law Help has consistently pretty good information, I think.  It seems to be put up by an actual indigent representation 501c3 and seems to be reliable.

I notice that the SEA page has links to local practices on SEAs, and Dallas' is pretty comprehensive, even if Dallas isn't the location in question.  There's even a chart of intestate succession that might have been handy during the bar exam.

Edited by TwiceHorn

She’s dead and had no assets.  I’m not sure there is any need to do anything. 

2 hours ago, cabowabo said:

She’s dead and had no assets.  I’m not sure there is any need to do anything. 

This.  My dad died a couple of years ago leaving a 100k life insurance policy and all of his meager assets to be split between me, my brother, and my sister.  We just did it.  I sold his old suburban in a day and we split the cash.  My sister handled the life insurance and cut me and my brother a check for 1/3 each (after funeral expenses).  We split up antiques and stuff that we wanted ammicably with no fighting.  Why give an attorney money to do this?

  • Author
6 hours ago, cabowabo said:

She’s dead and had no assets.  I’m not sure there is any need to do anything. 

My concern is with her possible debtors  coming back on us, the 3 sons if we split the bank account( low 5 figures.)

There is no immediate record of her taxes. 
She had her home foreclosed upon a year ago.( story that I shared on here.)

She had a car loan that went unpaid, and the vehicle was never recovered. ( long damned story.)
 

Again, she ignored my financial counsel. The lack of clarity on these are my concerns, dude.  The assets( bank account) is the easy part. 

Split the money and move on. There is not enough money at stake or available for a creditor to even want to sue. They would have to open up a probate case themselves to make any claims.  Ain’t gonna happen. 

Sorry for your loss, Slorch. What outstanding debts do you believe may exist? It’s possible that if her income was minimal ( you mention she only had social security and pension) then she may not have owed any taxes or been required to file a return.

  • Author
2 minutes ago, Player said:

Sorry for your loss, Slorch. What outstanding debts do you believe may exist? It’s possible that if her income was minimal ( you mention she only had social security and pension) then she may not have owed any taxes or been required to file a return.

There is no immediate record of her taxes. 
She had her home foreclosed upon a year ago.( story that I shared on here.)

She had a car loan that went unpaid, and the vehicle was never recovered. ( long damned story.)

Sorry for your loss.

My Dad passed 13 years ago. Similar deal except he owned a couple old vehicles and a tractor. The state makes passing title by signing an affidavit pretty easy, so those were fine. I did have to get a small estate affidavit for his bank account with no POD. I think I paid $1000 for it and the filing to get the $12k out of his account. 

Little known fact even if you have a POD account, some banks (USAA for example) will require probate paperwork before they will release the funds even if you have a death certificate. Ran into this with MIL's estate.

Regarding liabilities, just call and ask for the ones you know of. You may also receive stuff you don't know about when you have her mail forwarded to you. Dad was receiving bills for ambulance and other medical expenses that took place a couple months before his death. After he passed, I called them up asking about them and explained the situation. A few clicks on their keyboard and they said "ok, everything is taken care of, amount due is now zero. Condolences".

Sorry for your loss.

If there isn't a rush, I'd wait a bit and let things settle out.  The last SS deposit will removed from the account and there is a chance that you'll have to pay back the last pension payment.  My mother had POD on her accounts, but BOA froze the accounts.

Depending on whether or not you mother had taxes withheld from her SS and pension payments, the estate might be entitled to a refund.  My mom would get a refund check every year for about $3k and when I did her final taxes, she got a refund of $1900.

Once you have a complete handle on the assets and liabilities, I would recommend talking with a probate lawyer to at least figure out the easiest way to wrap it up.

Yes, good point on the tax return. If her only income was SS, she probably owed very little or nothing but was paying FIT each SS check. Standard deduction for singles last year is $14,600, so that would take her taxable down quite a bit I'd imagine.

If you’re a joint account owner on the bank account, the money is now yours. To split with your brothers. You need to let her pension admin know about her death. SS will be informed by the funeral home. Depending on the last payment date for the pension, they may want the January payment back. Be prepared for that.

If the estate is less than a few thousand, I don’t know if you need to do anything. If she owes the IRS, I don’t know how they come after an estate with zero funds. 

18 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

If she owes the IRS, I don’t know how they come after an estate with zero funds. 

 

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Not a lawyer but dying without a will is inexcusable. you can even handwrite a will especially if it's very simple. I'm sure there is preferred language but I would guess even a few sentences and signed can help a judge understand your wishes.

 

If you are concerned about claw back just tell you siblings not to use the money you give them until Christmas.  It should all be sorted by then.

But this thread reminds me, my Mom passed in August, and one of the best things for me as the primary on everything, was that they had their cremation and end of life stuff in order.  I was so happy about this for me that my wife and I did the same thing.  Neptune Society was who we used.  When my Dad passes the same easy peasy system will be used.  

It was REALLY nice to simply have the hospice person contact them, and then about the only question I needed to answer was the quantity of death certificates we would need. And Hospice is awesome if you get the right one.  Helps a lot with end of life stuff, we as individuals simply do not have much experience with. ANYTHING that keeps a child from the vultures at the funeral home is worth a lot more than the $3500? we paid to take that concern off the table.

Sorry for you loss.  And I can only imagine the frustration of trying to help your mome. and indirectly siblings with good financial advice, tossed in the circular file.    

But seems like a split the money, tell SS, Federal government and move on. Or just delay distribution of the money if you have any real concerns, it's in your control.

40 minutes ago, immamac said:

Yeah debts go poof on death. That cash is yours if you wanna split it do it. 

Not legally they don't.  Maybe as a practical matter if there is a small estate.

56 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Not a lawyer but dying without a will is inexcusable. you can even handwrite a will especially if it's very simple. I'm sure there is preferred language but I would guess even a few sentences and signed can help a judge understand your wishes.

 

This. My mom’s husband died without one despite having cancer. Like after it went into remission, you didn’t think to make one? It came back so suddenly and aggressively, he died so quickly 2 years later 

And his daughter did not like my mom. It was a nasty probate battle over money and possessions and property.

My sister and I made both parents draw or update theirs immediately after that.  It’s not worth potentially tearing families apart and just adding hardship to grief 

Edited by Js1

12 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Not a lawyer but dying without a will is inexcusable. you can even handwrite a will especially if it's very simple. I'm sure there is preferred language but I would guess even a few sentences and signed can help a judge understand your wishes.

 

Thank you for your insight on a thread where Slorch posted about his mother dying. Hopefully your cat gets everything in your will because well there is no one else.

Slorch sorry to hear about your loss.  You should change your avatar to the my three sons deal, even though you were adopted you were always the best of the bunch!

9 hours ago, F250 said:

Thank you for your insight on a thread where Slorch posted about his mother dying. Hopefully your cat gets everything in your will because well there is no one else.

Sounds like you need to masturbate before you talk about probate.

On 1/21/2025 at 6:50 PM, TwiceHorn said:

I called and they had somehow received notice of his death and closed the account, and took like $50 in lieu of the couple hundred owed, right then and there. It was insane.

Several card issuers (I know with 100% certainty that AMEX is one that does) run a screen using the Social Security Death Index on a weekly / monthly basis.  As soon as they get a hit on a cardholder, they shut down that card and any other cards for which that SS# was a primary.  It's fairly easy to see the rationale and how it could prevent fraud.

It can pose a problem for those who have automatic payments set up for a household or for small businesses with "company cards". 

Normally they are a bit shocked when someone calls proactively wanting to pay the debt. 

Amex will typically let someone else assume the account, but it comes with a credit check and accepting full responsibility for existing and future balances (if there is a compelling reason someone wants to keep the card open - like in the case of a business).

  • Author

One thing that caught me by surprise is that my mom had no written copy of her SSN, and we needed it for a couple of things.  See also: no tax documents to go back and review.

Luckily, about a year and a half ago I was working with her through another issue and I found it in my old notes.

Spiral notebook never has to boot up or be charged.  I catch hell from others, just jokingly, for using them; but it saved the day, again.

5 minutes ago, Iceman said:

One thing that caught me by surprise is that my mom had no written copy of her SSN, and we needed it for a couple of things.  See also: no tax documents to go back and review.

Luckily, about a year and a half ago I was working with her through another issue and I found it in my old notes.

Spiral notebook never has to boot up or be charged.  I catch hell from others, just jokingly, for using them; but it saved the day, again.

I have to write just about everything down. One of my neuroses 

22 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Not a lawyer but dying without a will is inexcusable. you can even handwrite a will especially if it's very simple. I'm sure there is preferred language but I would guess even a few sentences and signed can help a judge understand your wishes.

 

Analysis of Ron Swanson's Last Will and Testament | Collier Law

11 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

Several card issuers (I know with 100% certainty that AMEX is one that does) run a screen using the Social Security Death Index on a weekly / monthly basis.  As soon as they get a hit on a cardholder, they shut down that card and any other cards for which that SS# was a primary.  It's fairly easy to see the rationale and how it could prevent fraud.

It can pose a problem for those who have automatic payments set up for a household or for small businesses with "company cards". 

Normally they are a bit shocked when someone calls proactively wanting to pay the debt. 

Amex will typically let someone else assume the account, but it comes with a credit check and accepting full responsibility for existing and future balances (if there is a compelling reason someone wants to keep the card open - like in the case of a business).

Yes, reading between the lines, this is exactly what happened.  And yeah, it does make a certain amount of sense from a variety of perspectives.

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around Iceman is Slorch, Slorch is Iceman.  Sorry for your loss, brother!

  • Author

Say it 8 more times...
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Sorry to learn of your mom's passing. Have no advice regarding legalities but do give yourself some time to feel ALL the emotions that grieving incurs. There will be moments when it sneaks up on you and it's okay to embrace those feelings when they come.

  • 2 weeks later...

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