March 30Mar 30 I have a few questions and could use some guidance. I have two fully vested 401ks currently with Voya. I feel a recession is coming, perhaps a really bad one. The inflation numbers just released were bad and the next jobs report is going to be horrific. Tariffs are coming in the next few days. All bad. This week, I want to change how my 401k money is invested. I had high yield positions which had been good, but I want get into something that is as close to cash as I can get for now. There is a list of distribution options on the website, but their customer service was horrific and all in India. If I gave you guys a list of my options, could you tell me which ones are the good, super, super low risk? They are listed by their abbreviations on the website. Each 401k has different options. Ideally, I would prefer to not distribute my money into something that requires my money to be there for like 3 or more months. Because... In the near term, I am also trying to decide if I should move my money into a self directed fund. I would like some more control/options and perhaps be able to buy things that people buy in big Dow sell offs, like gold. I might want to, perhaps, dip my toes in the crypto market. Yes, I know but I wonder if people might run to the crypto market instead of traditional things like gold this time. I have some big decisions to make and Voya was less than useless.
March 31Mar 31 Author 1 hour ago, hornmpa96 said: Your 401ks should have a money market option in the 401k. I don't see anything with money market in the name. These are the categories for the two funds. Each category has one to 15 or so choices under it. 1st Fund: STABILITY OF PRINCIPAL BONDS ASSET ALLOCATION LARGE CAP VALUE/BLEND LARGE CAP GROWTH SMALL/MID/SPECIALTY GLOBAL/INTERNATIONAL 2nd Fund: TARGET-DATE FUNDS BONDS BALANCED LARGE CAP VALUE/BLEND LARGE CAP GROWTH SMALL/MID/SPECIALTY GLOBAL/INTERNATIONAL Do you know where I should be looking?
March 31Mar 31 It will be in the stability of principal in the first fund. The second fund isn’t clear. I would check the bonds section first.
March 31Mar 31 Author These are my options. Each fund had different choices. The category is in bold, choices underneath. Fund A: STABILITY OF PRINCIPAL 4450 Voya Fixed Account (4450) (My money has to stay here for 90 days before I could move to a self directed fund) BONDS 2952 Nuveen Infl-Linked Bond Fnd R6 3918 BlackRock High Yield Port K 6931 Baird Aggregate Bond Fund Inst C428 BlackRock US Debt Index Fund R E754 Thornburg Strategic Income Fund R6 ASSET ALLOCATION 6034 flexPATH Index+ Conservative Ret R1 6176 flexPATH Index+ Conservative 2035 R1 6563 flexPATH Index+ Conservative 2045 R1 6617 flexPATH Index+ Conservative 2055 R1 8545 flexPATH Index+ Aggressive Ret R1 8563 flexPATH Index+ Aggressive 2035 R1 8564 flexPATH Index+ Aggressive 2045 R1 8573 flexPATH Index+ Aggressive 2055 R1 9684 flexPATH Index+ Moderate 2035 R1 9685 flexPATH Index+ Moderate 2045 R1 9686 flexPATH Index+ Moderate 2055 R1 9687 flexPATH Index+ Moderate Ret R1 F229 flexPATH Index+ Aggressive 2065 R1 F234 flexPATH Index+ Conservative 2065 R1 F239 flexPATH Index+ Moderate 2065 R1 LARGE CAP VALUE/BLEND C975 Fidelity 500 Index Fund D264 Large Cap Value Fund R1 LARGE CAP GROWTH 3494 JPMorgan Lrg Cp Growth Fnd R6 SMALL/MID/SPECIALTY 2566 DFA U.S. Targeted Value Port Inst 6593 Vanguard Info Tech Index Fnd Adm 6856 JPMorgan Mid Cap Growth Fund R6 8203 Virtus Duff & Phelps Real Est Sec R6 C698 Janus Hndrsn Gl Life Sciences Fund N C993 Fidelity Sm Cp Ind Fund D122 Fidelity Mid Cap Index Fd E645 BlkRck Md-Cp Value Fnd K E750 Putnam Small Cap Growth Fund R6 GLOBAL/INTERNATIONAL 1913 DFA Emerging Mkts Core Eq 2-Inst C427 BlackRock EAFE Equity Index Fund R E601 Putnam International Value Fund R6 E752 International Equity Fund R1
March 31Mar 31 Author Fund B: TARGET-DATE FUNDS VANG TR II INCOME VANG TR II 2020 VANG TR II 2025 VANG TR II 2030 VANG TR II 2035 VANG TR II 2040 VANG TR II 2045 VANG TR II 2050 VANG TR II 2055 VANG TR II 2060 VANG TR II 2065 VANG TR II 2070 BONDS PIMCO REAL RETURN TR VANG TOT BOND MKT INST PIONEER STRAT INC Y VRTS S HIGH YIELD I BALANCED VANG WELLINGTON ADM LARGE CAP VALUE/BLEND VANG WINDSOR II ADM VANGUARD INST INDEX VANG PRIMECAP ADM LARGE CAP GROWTH VANG US GROWTH ADM SMALL/MID/SPECIALTY Vanguard Selected Value IVY MID CAP GROWTH CIT C DLWR SM CAP VAL INST NATIONWIDE GENEVA SM CAP GRWTH Cohen & Steers US Realty Class RS GLOBAL/INTERNATIONAL Vanguard Developed Markets Index Admiral DFA Emerging Markets Core Equity VANG EURO STK IDX INSTLl STABLE VALUE OPTION (My money has to stay here for 90 days before I could move to a self directed fund) Edited March 31Mar 31 by RabidM
March 31Mar 31 Author 30 minutes ago, hornmpa96 said: It will be in the stability of principal in the first fund. The second fund isn’t clear. I would check the bonds section first. I put the full list of options in there. Are any of those money market funds?
March 31Mar 31 28 minutes ago, RabidM said: I put the full list of options in there. Are any of those money market funds? Looking at those options, I realize that I really dislike Voya. My employers have always used either Fidelity or Vanguard as our 401k provider and it’s never looked that complicated. I looked at an information sheet for the 4450 Voya Fixed Account and it mentioned the word “Annuity” which I didn’t really like. Someone may jump on me for this - however, when I see “annuity” I assume it comes with some kind of cost. In Fund B, I’m guessing the Stable Value Option is the same as the Voya Fixed Account in Fund A. Based on your list, it doesn’t appear that you have a simple money market option. Sorry I’m not more help.
March 31Mar 31 Many years ago I had to set up a 401k for my company. I was stunned at the level of fees charged. Companies pay some, all, or none of those fees depending on the company. And these fees are very hidden from the employee. It’s hard to find them. As a result, over the years whenever I left a company I’d roll my 401k to a rollover IRA at a low cost broker, like Vanguard or Fidelity or Schwab. There is one IRS approved feature you lose by not having funds in a 401k vs a rollover IRA, but I can’t recall what it was or whether it’s important. I don’t think it was. Maybe someone on here knows. Once you’re in a rollover IRA at Fidelity, you can invest in anything with much lower fees.
March 31Mar 31 Author I'm leaning toward rolling into a self directed fund. I want to get out of stock volatility this week though. This week could be really bad. Tariffs on Wed and job report on Friday and it was already trending down. yikes 43 minutes ago, hornmpa96 said: Looking at those options, I realize that I really dislike Voya. My employers have always used either Fidelity or Vanguard as our 401k provider and it’s never looked that complicated. I looked at an information sheet for the 4450 Voya Fixed Account and it mentioned the word “Annuity” which I didn’t really like. Someone may jump on me for this - however, when I see “annuity” I assume it comes with some kind of cost. In Fund B, I’m guessing the Stable Value Option is the same as the Voya Fixed Account in Fund A. Based on your list, it doesn’t appear that you have a simple money market option. Sorry I’m not more help. Thanks for looking. I think the two might be my only options. How large could the fees be? Edited March 31Mar 31 by RabidM
March 31Mar 31 Author Were there any other options in there with less market volatility to them? How quickly could I get rolled into a self directed fund? If you notify Voya that you want to roll over into a new company, do they convert your funds to cash and hold them or do they stay in their current investment distributions? Edited March 31Mar 31 by RabidM
March 31Mar 31 I love how you started here 9 hours ago, RabidM said: If I gave you guys a list of my options, could you tell me which ones are the good, super, super low risk? And ended here 9 hours ago, RabidM said: I would like some more control/options and perhaps be able to buy things that people buy in big Dow sell offs, like gold. I might want to, perhaps, dip my toes in the crypto market.
March 31Mar 31 Author 51 minutes ago, Reynolds Woodcock said: I love how you started here And ended here That's a hunch on what might happen if the Dow completely crashes out. It's something I'm watching. Unfortunately, I have struggled mightily in my life financially. I don't have nearly enough saved to avoid being impoverished at some point. I might need to take a risk to try and catch up. I probably won't end up doing it, but I at least want the option to explore it. I am aware crypto is very, very risky/speculative.
March 31Mar 31 Author I found the pdf sheets on those funds. One has fees listed. The other has a ton of verbiage. I'm starting to really intensely dislike dealing with Voya. https://www.voyaretirementplans.com/fundonepagerscolor/1319.pdf https://my.voya.com/static/fundonepagerscolor/4450.pdf
March 31Mar 31 https://www.fidelity.com/retirement-ira/schedule-appt-401k-rollover-ira-steps?s_tnt=186061%3A1%3A0&adobe_mc_sdid=SDID%3D21687B1982216371-5CC4FE8D468EE73D|MCORGID%3DEDCF01AC512D2B770A490D4C%40AdobeOrg|TS%3D1743392024&adobe_mc_ref=https%3A%2F%2Fduckduckgo.com%2F For reference, Fidelity will run a 401k for an employer for nothing or close to it. They just want the funds. It's a no-brainer as a small-business employer. https://presents.voya.com/Retirement/SelectAdvantage/content/206943.pdf Edited March 31Mar 31 by TwiceHorn
March 31Mar 31 Right now crypto is tracking the nasdaq just with a higher beta. I too have thought about crypto and specifically bitcoin now that you can trade it in some brokerage accounts but it is super risky. I would be very careful thinking it will diverge from the direction of stocks. If we get a 40% market crash bitcoin could crash 80%. It would be right at the bottom where you could have a ridiculous return in 2 years. But where is the bottom. That's the trick. For me personally I would never touch bitcion unless it goes back down to the 20-25k range. My fidelity and schwab account both allow for me to trade it. My vanguard account however does not.
March 31Mar 31 13 hours ago, Dbeasy said: There is one IRS approved feature you lose by not having funds in a 401k vs a rollover IRA, but I can’t recall what it was or whether it’s important. I don’t think it was. Maybe someone on here knows. The only one that I know is that if you separate from a company for which you have a 401k (or presumably 403b), you can withdrawal the funds from that 401k starting at 55 without penalty. The IRA non-penalty feature doesn't kick in until 59.5. What I don't know is if the 401k funds, withdrawable without penalty, could have only been contributed at that job or whether rollover 401k funds also receive that benefit. It would be important to think this through and possibly transfer funds if you know you're leaving a company after 55.
March 31Mar 31 There are 2 other issues with rolling 401k’s to Ira’s. First, it makes Backdoor Roth conversions (non-deductable Ira contributions that are then converted to Roth) non-viable, because of how the taxation is calculated. Second, Ira’s have less creditor protection than 401ks, which is stupid. For me neither of these issues was enough to not do it. I wanted the lower fees, better investment options, and higher control of having funds in the Ira instead of the 401k. Plus, I was with several companies so I had many 401k’s.
March 31Mar 31 53 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said: The only one that I know is that if you separate from a company for which you have a 401k (or presumably 403b), you can withdrawal the funds from that 401k starting at 55 without penalty. The IRA non-penalty feature doesn't kick in until 59.5. What I don't know is if the 401k funds, withdrawable without penalty, could have only been contributed at that job or whether rollover 401k funds also receive that benefit. It would be important to think this through and possibly transfer funds if you know you're leaving a company after 55. I’m fairly certain you can rollover prior employer 401k funds into your current employer’s 401k and eventually receiving the separation after 55 benefit (assuming your current employers plan allows for rollovers).
March 31Mar 31 @RabidM If you don’t mind sharing how old you are, or a general range, it might help some of our knowledgeable posters help you out a bit more.
March 31Mar 31 Author 29 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said: @RabidM If you don’t mind sharing how old you are, or a general range, it might help some of our knowledgeable posters help you out a bit more. I'm 49
March 31Mar 31 12 minutes ago, RabidM said: I'm 49 I’m not a financial professional in any way but based on your age and statement that you don’t have nearly enough saved, you might not be as bad off as you think. I think you are young enough to still make a difference it the quality of retirement you are hoping for. Staying the course with consistent investing should have you well ahead over the next 15 years. If the market does take a big dip over the next year, buying at a discount could be the best thing for your financial future. Of course that all depends on your individual situation and the amount you have to plow into the market each month. I’ll let the pros chime in with their take.
March 31Mar 31 Most money market funds end with "XX," I don't think VOYA is an exception. Stable Value funds are similar but usually give you a little more return, but will have requirements on how long they need to stay in the fund. You will probably mess this up, the market will have already factored all your concerns in, and you will not buy back in at the bottom.
March 31Mar 31 43 minutes ago, RabidM said: I'm 49 My friend, you are not that old. You need to cut expenses and save in a disciplined manner to the max extent possible. The last thing you need to do is try to time the market or make a speculative bet on crypto. That is exactly how you make a bad situation worse.
April 4Apr 4 On 3/30/2025 at 9:22 PM, RabidM said: Were there any other options in there with less market volatility to them? How quickly could I get rolled into a self directed fund? If you notify Voya that you want to roll over into a new company, do they convert your funds to cash and hold them or do they stay in their current investment distributions? I rolled my 401K into an IRA a year ago but all of that was inside of Fidelity so it was instantaneous. However, I am currently moving my mother-in-law's 401ks into a single rollover IRA at Fidelity. For one, they only transfer funds every 2 months and the next time is the last day of April. For the other, they do it within 10 working days of the request. So basically, for timing the answer is who knows. You gotta call Voya and ask them.
April 4Apr 4 Author I didn't know what to do so I didn't change anything. I'm afraid to look at the balances now. I want to roll over, but I'm afraid they'll crater before I can get the money out. I think I might be forced to go into those stability of principal type accounts even though the money might be trapped there. I'm also afraid he'll ease off the tariffs while my money is in transit and i'll miss any bounce back. Kind of freaked out here.
April 4Apr 4 On 3/31/2025 at 10:39 AM, Dbeasy said: Second, Ira’s have less creditor protection than 401ks, which is stupid. A 401(k) is an ERISA plan, where an IRA is not. In some states creditors can find out in a judgment debtor rule that you have an IRA and seize it. Although all the comic books used to recommend it, I would caution against starting a chinchilla ranch. And there is always the uncertainty about how tariffs will affect the sales of playful sea monkeys
April 5Apr 5 Author 1 hour ago, Gatorubet said: A 401(k) is an ERISA plan, where an IRA is not. In some states creditors can find out in a judgment debtor rule that you have an IRA and seize it. Although all the comic books used to recommend it, I would caution against starting a chinchilla ranch. And there is always the uncertainty about how tariffs will affect the sales of playful sea monkeys Creditors can't seize IRAs in Texas, right?
April 5Apr 5 3 hours ago, RabidM said: I didn't know what to do so I didn't change anything. I'm afraid to look at the balances now. I want to roll over, but I'm afraid they'll crater before I can get the money out. I think I might be forced to go into those stability of principal type accounts even though the money might be trapped there. I'm also afraid he'll ease off the tariffs while my money is in transit and i'll miss any bounce back. Kind of freaked out here. I obviously don't know your entire situation but I think you are still too young to be worrying about market volatility in your retirement account.
April 5Apr 5 1 hour ago, RabidM said: Creditors can't seize IRAs in Texas, right? Texas Law Protection: Traditional IRAs and Roth IRAs are exempt from seizureunder Texas Property Code Section 42.0021. I have no idea whether this is right, but the Google would not lie, now, would it?
April 5Apr 5 21 minutes ago, Gatorubet said: Texas Law Protection: Traditional IRAs and Roth IRAs are exempt from seizureunder Texas Property Code Section 42.0021. I have no idea whether this is right, but the Google would not lie, now, would it? It is accurate. 401ks are exempt under federal law, IRA may be under state law and are in Texas. https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PR/htm/PR.42.htm Edited April 5Apr 5 by TwiceHorn
April 5Apr 5 Author 1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said: It is accurate. 401ks are exempt under federal law, IRA may be under state law and are in Texas. are non-traditional IRAs subject to seizure or are they also exempt?
April 5Apr 5 2 minutes ago, RabidM said: are non-traditional IRAs subject to seizure or are they also exempt? As long as it qualifies as an IRA, it's exempt. The exemption depends on or is coextensive with the federal income tax exemption/deferral.
April 5Apr 5 You can go into your 401k account today, sell everything to cash and securing your losses. Or you can sell and go into a stable value fund or money market. You are making this needlessly difficult Edited April 5Apr 5 by StassneyHorn
April 5Apr 5 Author 5 hours ago, StassneyHorn said: You can go into your 401k account today, sell everything to cash and securing your losses. Or you can sell and go into a stable value fund or money market. You are making this needlessly difficult How do you sell everything to cash? I didn't see that as an option. Edited April 5Apr 5 by RabidM
April 6Apr 6 I cannot see what see your screen could possibly show you. Hit the button that says “Sell” and for amount type put in all
April 6Apr 6 15 hours ago, RabidM said: How do you sell everything to cash? I didn't see that as an option. It seems bizarre, but that Voya outfit may not let you sell to cash. I just don't see the "use case" for that type of 401k, and I don't know why employers choose them. Maybe sometimes it's part of an "employee leasing" deal.
April 6Apr 6 Author Voya does not appear to offer a sell to cash option. That would have been a dream. I had 148k in both of my 401ks. I lose 12k in 2 days. I moved my money into the principal protection funds but I don't think the changes post until Tuesday. I just hope the market calms down for a day or two or this will be even more brutal. Edited April 6Apr 6 by RabidM
April 6Apr 6 Author I don't see a sell option. I literally listed the options I have above for both 401ks. The google search says voya doesn't offer a hold cash option.
April 6Apr 6 Author This is the text from when I moved into the cash equivalent fund. Does this mean I have to endure Monday's loss or Monday and Tuesday's loss? I think I read it as Monday only, but I'm not positive. Quote You have completed this transaction on April 06, 2025 2:50:32 PM EDT. Transactions completed before 4:00 PM EDT or the close of the New York Stock Exchange will be reflected in your account next business day. You may cancel this transaction before that time by selecting this transaction again.
April 6Apr 6 4 hours ago, RabidM said: This is the text from when I moved into the cash equivalent fund. Does this mean I have to endure Monday's loss or Monday and Tuesday's loss? I think I read it as Monday only, but I'm not positive. It will sell at the market price at market open.
April 6Apr 6 Author Oh shit, I didn't copy and paste the whole thing. It also says this on the next line: Quote Your transaction will be reflected in your account on April 8, 2025. The 8th is Tuesday so that's why I was asking if I have to endure the sell off on Monday or Monday and Tuesday. Obviously, it would be great if they sold at market open on Monday. Here's to hoping, but with my luck I'll just get fucked.
April 6Apr 6 Most likely your sale will transact after COB on Monday based on Monday’s close prices and show up in your account in the new fund on Tuesday. I moved two 401k’s from S&P 500 and Large cap funds to cash/treasuries last week on Tuesday and Wed. On my account screens I changed my allocations for existing funds to 0% and set the cash fund to 100%. They both processed the respective nights and showed up the next business day. We had been needing to do some asset reallocation and getting those done before Thursday ended up saving us a significant amount.
April 6Apr 6 Author Thanks. I just hope tomorrow isn't as brutal as last Friday. At least I should avoid Tuesday sell off.
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