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Dallas officer kills man after mistaking apartment for her own, police say

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10 years and she may serve 7?

That's the way it should be, imo. There's way too much "lock 'em up for life" bullshit going on today. Imo, of course. And yes, at times I'm one of those "lock 'em up for along time" people.

We need to follow the Scandihoovian method of penal management. Again, just imo.

She fucked up. Big Time. This is not an unreasonable sentence. It's not Aaron Persky/Brock Turner. 

Edited by Asithappens

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  • First off I’d like to say that I’m heartbroken for the Jean family. As a parent myself, I hope Mr. Jean’s father and mother find some peace in the outcome. They appear to be a wonderful family that ra

  • SubliminalHorn
    SubliminalHorn

    Just relax the throat and stay in rhythm 

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2 minutes ago, hopkinsnhorns said:

Brother of Botham just says that he personally wished she didn't have to go to jail and could just do as his brother would have wanted, and give her life over to Christ.  Now he's hugging her.

Christianity needed this. 

Good example. Very Christ-like.

1 minute ago, hopkinsnhorns said:

It's not easy to practice what you preach.  What a family.  I wish nothing but the best for the Jean's.

Exactly. that really hit deep. wow. 

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Brisket got to eat a healthy ration of shit yesterday after the conviction.

Yeah, I assumed so just happened that I hadn't been in the thread in awhile and his post was the first one I saw when I opened the thread. Thought I would pile on! ha 

1 minute ago, NowThis said:

i'm not interested in fucking 'starting points'. Do something of substance.  What a loser mentality I'm seeing here. Go for the gusto bitches!  Damn, i feel so bad for the victim family now, it's a big F Y to them. Bitch will be out in 5-6 years.  White Females get very soft sentences all the time, does Surly want to fight?

Then you're not interested in real change.  Because real change happens incrementally.  It doesn't happen overnight.  10+ years ago, she walks on this.  So I'd say that's progress.

 

And yes, the sentences women get (especially when it comes to teachers fucking their students) is absurd compared to what happens to men.

3 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

10 years and she may serve 7?

That's the way it should be, imo. There's way too much "lock 'em up for life" bullshit going on today. Imo, of course. 

We need to follow the Scandihoovian method of penal management. Again, just imo.

She fucked up. Big Time. This is not an unreasonable sentence. It's not Aaron Persky/Brock Turner. 

Gagreed.  35-40 years is tantamount to a life sentence.  It certainly takes the good part and with prison conditions and healthcare, probably all of it.  And we hand those out like candy, especially at the federal level for offenses where no one got killed.

Edited by TwiceHorn

Is the judge showing Amber a bible?

 

Did the family maybe give her a bible??

Just wow..

 

Edited by msudawg

 
10 years is nothing to sneeze at.  It's plenty.  Most sentences are too damned long anyway.
If the Balch Springs guy got 15, 10 is appropriate here.
She won't do the 10. That's one issue. The other issue is you specifically mentioned another cop. 2 cops who shot to kill when it was not necessary. So then cops play by different rules. That precedent still remains. Cop kills innocent black man and a slap on the wrist relative to the crime. Still in play. It will never change. Justice system at it's finest.
7 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:
8 minutes ago, hookem17 said:
Yes. Yes. 

I would not budge at all of anything less than 25. What happens then if someone refuses to give in. Can you hang a jury at sentencing?

Yes, it does happen. A new jury gets picked to re-hear the punishment portion of the trial. 

The judge is hugging Amber now.. wow. 

 

Yall can bitch about the years.. but something special is going on here. 

I’ve served as a juror once in a criminal case.  It took us less than 5 minutes to make a unanimous decision on sentencing (life, which was the max).  It was such a terrifying and disgusting case with evidence that left no doubt whatsoever as to guilt, no one really considered anything else.  I would imagine there was a pretty big spread on what each juror thought was right on this one.

For you assholes not watching the live stream it seems the family is forgiving so maybe reflect.  

4 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:
12 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:
 
10 years is nothing to sneeze at.  It's plenty.  Most sentences are too damned long anyway.
If the Balch Springs guy got 15, 10 is appropriate here.

She won't do the 10. That's one issue. The other issue is you specifically mentioned another cop. 2 cops who shot to kill when it was not necessary. So then cops play by different rules. That precedent still remains. Cop kills innocent black man and a slap on the wrist relative to the crime. Still in play. It will never change. Justice system at it's finest.

Do you not see a difference between this and the Balch Springs deal?  If you don't then you are not capable of rational thought.

I freely admit that I believe the range of sentences in our justice system needs a serious overhaul and recalibration.

And if I am going to support that notion, I'm going to support it when it comes to sentencing cops, white collars, and gang-banger drug dealers, Paul Manafort and Donald fuckin Trump.

Edited by TwiceHorn

This is as best as I could have hoped.  This is how the justice system is supposed to work.  These are some strong steps that should help her in her rehabilitation.  Having the brother of the man you murdered wishing you the best, offering you a hug, and asking you to turn your life over to Christ is absolutely incredible.  If there is a shred of humanity in Amber, I hope she let's this momentum turn her life around and bring some good into the world.

Edited by hopkinsnhorns

17 minutes ago, SameSame said:

This bitch is out in 7,. .FUCK THIS

Nonsense 

gets clipped within 6 months of hitting parole?

Justice served, and taxpayers get relief?  win:win.

  • Author

Good for that family, I mean that sincerely. It doesn't fix the problem that thousands upon thousands of minorities are serving more than 10 years for non violent drug offenses. The inequity is just glaring and infuriating. 

1 minute ago, Vic Mackey said:
9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:
 
10 years is nothing to sneeze at.  It's plenty.  Most sentences are too damned long anyway.
If the Balch Springs guy got 15, 10 is appropriate here.

She won't do the 10. That's one issue. The other issue is you specifically mentioned another cop. 2 cops who shot to kill when it was not necessary. So then cops play by different rules. That precedent still remains. Cop kills innocent black man and a slap on the wrist relative to the crime. Still in play. It will never change. Justice system at it's finest.

You're right, of course, but it reminds me of a line in The Big Lebowski: "You're not wrong Walter, you're just an ...."

Look, if you're looking for a perfect system of logic and completely "fair" (however that's defined) treatment of everybody in the criminal justice system you're naive. And you can ALWAYS play the "yeah, but look at that" card. This was a good trial (imo) and a fair sentence. Yeah, the world is still unfair. This trial didn't change that.

3 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Then you're not interested in real change.  Because real change happens incrementally.  It doesn't happen overnight.  10+ years ago, she walks on this.  So I'd say that's progress.

 

And yes, the sentences women get (especially when it comes to teachers fucking their students) is absurd compared to what happens to men.

Real change means a bigger sentence. They missed a slam dunk and you (and others) have a loser mentality.  Rise up, F the system hard, nothing soft.  You are too soft.

a climax of a perfect verdict with the deep disappointment of the soft sentence.

also, put "white" women vs. "black women" for the disparity. I'm sure it's huge as well.

If you want to commit murder in America, best to be a middle class or richer,  young white female. It's completely unacceptable.

2 hours ago, Ten Bears said:

And there it is "She was trying to get home safe."

 

I would have laughed out loud if I had been in the courtroom and heard that.

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, msudawg said:

The judge is hugging Amber now.. wow. 

 

Yall can bitch about the years.. but something special is going on here. 

I wish our criminal justice system had more of this going on. 

Don't discard people. Amber made a terrible mistake. Forgiveness is a powerful thing.

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1 minute ago, NowThis said:

Real change means a bigger sentence. They missed a slam dunk and you (and others) have a loser mentality.  Rise up, F the system hard, nothing soft.  You are too soft.

a climax of a perfect verdict with the deep disappointment of the soft sentence.

also, put "white" women vs. "black women" for the disparity. I'm sure it's huge as well.

If you want to commit murder in America, best to be a middle class or richer,  young white female. It's completely unacceptable.

The solution is not to ratchet up everyone's sentence, it's to ratchet them all down.

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

The solution is not to ratchet up everyone's sentence, it's to ratchet them all down.

exactly.

too many people just want to completely ruin another person's life. 10 years feels about right to me. that's a fucking decade. that's a significant amount of a person's time on earth.

1 minute ago, Asithappens said:

I wish our criminal justice system had more of this going on. 

Don't discard people. Amber made a terrible mistake. Forgiveness is a powerful thing.

We have completely lost sight of this.  Granted, there are some awful people in the justice system, but it treats them all like they're awful and irredeemable.

She got time and the family seems to be forgiving her. She is paying a price, rightfully so, even though it is clearly not how much some of the board wanted. At the end of the day, my first sentence is all that matters. No reason to be upset with the outcome, because the family sure doesn’t seem to be. They are the ones that matter, not anyone one of our hot takes.

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

The solution is not to ratchet up everyone's sentence, it's to ratchet them all down.

Holy shit. 

That is so right. 

This felt so surreal, like it was taken from a Hollywood film.  This is the peak of courtroom drama.

  • Author
6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The solution is not to ratchet up everyone's sentence, it's to ratchet them all down.

This crime deserves more, but it would be more palatable if the others were “ratcheted down.” But that’s the entire problem, if this is the right punishment, we should be emptying our prisons right now at light speed.

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Amazing moment after Guyger sentencing. Botham Jean’s little brother Brandt tells Guyger he loves her, forgives her, and wishes she didn’t have to go to prison. He also says Botham would feel the same. Then asks, “can I hug you?” Wow!
We can learn a thing or 2 from him.

596add1c63006f85a4f52f1b14a197f6.jpg

1 minute ago, Capn81 said:

She got time and the family seems to be forgiving her. She is paying a price, rightfully so, even though it is clearly not how much some of the board wanted. At the end of the day, my first sentence is all that matters. No reason to be upset with the outcome, because the family sure doesn’t seem to be. They are the ones that matter, not anyone one of our hot takes.

Well, yes and no.

The justice system doesn't actually serve the victims.  It serves society.

For a long time, the justice system ignored victims, and that was wrong.  But it's gone too far the other way, particularly when the victims become vengefully bloodthirsty, as they sometimes do.

To me, it's gratifying that the Jeans are acting out their faith.  That means that they are going to well and truly move past this, to the maximum extent possible.  Those victims that put their entire faith and  in the justice system ultimately will hold an empty bag.

About all the justice system can do for victims is money, "closure," and vengeance, and over the long haul, those are all pretty empty things.

8 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

that's some powerful stuff. jesus.

Literally. 

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Botham Jean's brother is about 10000000000000000000000000000000x more Christian than these so-called Evangelicals like Robert Jeffers and Jerry Falwell Jr (/no CR).

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And one last thing.  Botham's brother's statement and actions may have done more to bring about a change of heart in the police mentality than Amber's verdict.  That level of humanity is so incredibly powerful that one can't help but be moved by it.  By all accounts, even the deputies in the courtroom were tearing up.  Maybe, just maybe, they will look for the humanity in their suspects before deciding pulling the trigger on a perp is easier than the alternative.  We are all humans.  We are all Children of God.  Let's put an end to the us vs. them.  We are all one.

Edited by hopkinsnhorns

9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The solution is not to ratchet up everyone's sentence, it's to ratchet them all down.

Don't ratchet up sentence's plus actually turn jails into something that rehabs people and not just chews them up..spits them out.. if they get out... and then are worthless to society and not up to date socially. 

 

Amazing moment after Guyger sentencing. Botham Jean’s little brother Brandt tells Guyger he loves her, forgives her, and wishes she didn’t have to go to prison. He also says Botham would feel the same. Then asks, “can I hug you?” Wow!
We can learn a thing or 2 from him.

596add1c63006f85a4f52f1b14a197f6.jpg


And then the judge went back into her office and came back into the courtroom and gave Amber her personal bible. And they talked and hugged. Huge emotion for everyone involved.
50 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

The jury has made two incredibly tough decisions: convicting her of murder, and showing some form of compassion by not sentencing her to life.  I can't imagine being in that room.  I commend them for their open-mindedness 

I'm sorry, were you under the impression there was any chance in hell she'd get life in prison? 

rehab for someone who shoots others in cold blood?

 

yeah, that'll take 40k years to change that person's soul.  Just fucking get it over with.

There are bleks sitting in prison longer for having a big bag of weed....

1 minute ago, cattail said:

There are bleks sitting in prison longer for having a big bag of weed....

everyone knew better, right?

sorry, i wanted this bitch to get a much tougher sentence, and I can agree with the inconsistencies in the 'corrections' for these crimes.

 

Simple solution is to not possess the weed, though.

Edited by Iceman

For those of you who think this should be 20-40 years, what fact pattern that constitutes murder would you think justifies the lower end of the spectrum of the punishment range?

Also, how much money would someone have to pay you to accept a 10 year prison sentence starting today?

It's just funny because I leaned very heavily to the state's favor in this case, but I think putting her in prison for a quarter century would be insane, counterproductive, and pointless.

1 minute ago, cattail said:

There are bleks sitting in prison longer for having a big bag of weed....

And I don't think you would find one person in this thread that believes there is justice in those sentences.  Blame Nixon's war on drugs.  Blame Reagan and Clinton for amping up that war and mandatory minimums.

3 minutes ago, housious said:

I'm sorry, were you under the impression there was any chance in hell she'd get life in prison? 

None at all.  I wouldn’t have been surprised if she had gotten 25 or so.  I wasn’t going to put some obscure number in there.  

2 minutes ago, hopkinsnhorns said:

And I don't think you would find one person in this thread that believes there is justice in those sentences.  Blame Nixon's war on drugs.  Blame Reagan and Clinton for amping up that war and mandatory minimums.

Anytime and everytime any politician tries to curry political favor with some new crime or punishment or crime policy, view that politician with extreme jaundice.  

Even if it's well-meaning now, or seems appropriate in view of the latest atrocity, it's bound to have dire unintended consequences.

I don't want her to be given a longer sentence. I want for sentencing to be more equitable so that black dudes aren't doing more time for possession of weed than Amber Guyger is going to do for murder.  I want more humanity in criminal proceedings like what happened when the judge hugged the defendant. But I find it curious that these  expressions of compassion seem to only be extended to poor little blonde white girls and not black dudes that kill other people. 

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22 minutes ago, JimmyHoffa said:

giphy-downsized-large.gif

 

20 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Brisket got to eat a healthy ration of shit yesterday after the conviction.

I did, and it's plenty fair.  I made the call at the time based on history and known evidence....damned glad to be wrong.  Not the first time for me, won't be the last (I mean, I'm SURE all of y'all just KNEW Texas was gonna beat the Huskers in the first Big 12 championship, right?)

19 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Although it's a lot to ask of someone in his position, that is a truly Christian reaction.

 

18 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

Christianity needed this. 

Good example. Very Christ-like.

Very much agreed.  Our social trend is so much towards separation, and villification.  Seeing an outward example of kindness, forgiveness, and acknowledgment that we all live in community with each other -- including with the people who have wronged us -- is really big.

It reminds me of the aftermath of the Amish school shooting back in 2006.  https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14900930

The Amish family members of actual shooting victims not only forgave the shooter, but some of them even attended his funeral.  They offered love and assistance to his widow and his family.  They walked the fucking walk.  It was one of the most powerful displays of Christ-like behavior I've ever seen, and it sticks with me to this day.

A lot of us are angry at law enforcement.  And we have every right to be.  But what do we really WANT?  We want them to do their jobs.  We want them to do it with kindness and human decency, with awareness and respect for the gravity of their power, and the decisions they may be called upon to make.  We actually DO want them to "make it home safely."  And we want them to deliberately balance the life and safety of others when they make life-changing decisions.  We want them to be like Deputy Dahliwal...and we want him and the rest of them to go home to their family at the end of their shift.  I don't hate cops.  I hate what they've allowed themselves to become, and I hate that so many of them resist reform.  

Do we want Amber Guyger to suffer now?  Maybe.   Maybe somewhat.  Because it does send a powerful cautionary message.  But what would we RATHER have had happen? 

I think most of us would prefer to have seen her grow up to be a decent woman with compassion, not fear masked with callous bravado.  We'd rather have seen her be capable of doing her job in a cool and professional manner.  That way, even if she did goof in showing up at the wrong apartment, upon hearing movement inside, she would have backed up, and assessed the situation....looked at the doormat....looked at the apartment number....and realized it wasn't her own apartment.  Maybe she even would have been a good neighbor, knocking on the door to tell her downstairs neighbor that "man, I am really tired, and found myself in front of the wrong door, but I saw that it was ajar, so I wanted to tell you so you could close it and be safe.  Have a nice evening."

I'm sick of people being so fragile and hostile that they resort to violence and hurting others.  I'm sick of people being hurt and killed because violence is such a common reaction among people we should be able to trust.  I'm sick of society HAVING to call for justice, and strong sentences to serve as a warning.  I'm sick of losing good people like Botham Jean.  I'm sick of people like Amber Guyger never developing into a good person, for whatever reasons may have led her down the wrong path.  I'd like a society where Botham got to enjoy his ice cream and go to bed, and a good cop named Amber got to have a laugh about how tired she was, and get a good night's sleep.

We can and should exact our punishment.  But we must also figure out a way to heal who we are.  Because who we are right now hurts a shitload of people, for no damned good reason at all.

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