October 2, 20196 yr 9 minutes ago, hookem17 said: Wow. that kid is more of a man than i may ever be. i'm not sure i would be capable of forgiveness in that moment. powerful stuff.
October 2, 20196 yr Just now, irishtexan said: I don't want her to be given a longer sentence. I want for sentencing to be more equitable so that black dudes aren't doing more time for possession of weed than Amber Guyger is going to do for murder. I want more humanity in criminal proceedings like what happened when the judge hugged the defendant. But I find it curious that these expressions of compassion seem to only be extended to poor little blonde white girls and not black dudes that kill other people. I'll be the first to tell you no one is doing 10 years for possession of weed. Possession of 100 lbs of weed, that they are planning to sell along with a couple kilos each of coke, heroin, and meth, yeah. The drug defendants in jail are serious criminals most of the time. We still put em away too long.
October 2, 20196 yr Thought about this for a bit since the sentence was announced. At first, I was pissed because it’s too light. I’m struggling with it because what I really think is “it’s too light comparable to other sentences.” After stewing on it, I feel it’s a fair sentence for what our system SHOULD be. 10 years is somewhat of a balance between the theories of punishment vs rehabilitation, and it allows a person to return to society before they lose all possibility to have a purpose. Her time in the joint won’t be easy. She may not survive it. But if she comes out the other side, I think she’ll have the ability to be a positive impact on some lives and make Bo’s loss mean something
October 2, 20196 yr I wouldn't have been upset if she got 25 or more. She handed out a death sentence to Botham Jean.
October 2, 20196 yr 1 minute ago, SquishMitten said: Thought about this for a bit since the sentence was announced. At first, I was pissed because it’s too light. I’m struggling with it because what I really think is “it’s too light comparable to other sentences.” After stewing on it, I feel it’s a fair sentence for what our system SHOULD be. 10 years is somewhat of a balance between the theories of punishment vs rehabilitation, and it allows a person to return to society before they lose all possibility to have a purpose. Her time in the joint won’t be easy. She may not survive it. But if she comes out the other side, I think she’ll have the ability to be a positive impact on some lives and make Bo’s loss mean something Right. If this is a "watershed" victory reflecting fairness in treatment of cop shooters versus civilian shooters, we can't taint the victory by giving an unfair sentence just because the rest of the system is unfair. Make this two victories. Fairness in cops' treatment of civilians, particularly those of color, and at least a semblance of rationality in the sentence instead of a fit of judicial pique.
October 2, 20196 yr This is another great example of the power of humility and forgiveness against all odds for anyone looking for a good listen. We could all do better by finding a way to listen to those we would villify.https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/segments/317629-dear-hector
October 2, 20196 yr So when they included time served to reduce her sentence, does that include time out on bond?
October 2, 20196 yr 1 minute ago, RPM said: So when they included time served to reduce her sentence, does that include time out on bond? no legal eagle, but think I heard the judge say 10 years, starting today, and she gets credit for today.
October 2, 20196 yr 20 minutes ago, hookem17 said: Wow. Even the judge was tearing up. What a young man he is.
October 2, 20196 yr Judge was a rockstar in all this. I don't know how she stayed composed through the father's testimony. I was a fucking mess listening to it on headphones.
October 2, 20196 yr For the record, knowing that Botham Jean and his family were professing Christians, I was somewhat surprised and shocked at reports that family members "thanked God" after the conviction. My expression of that pissed a few people off. While you can hope in one hand and shit in the other waiting for self-identified Christians to do the Christian thing, and being Christian in these circumstances is super difficult, it's amazing to see that on display.
October 2, 20196 yr I wish our criminal justice system had more of this going on. Don't discard people. Amber made a terrible mistake. Forgiveness is a powerful thing.Now lets do it with the minorities locked up longer than 10 years for bullshit ass drugs. White female cop getting this kind of treatment is bullshit
October 2, 20196 yr 1 minute ago, Zepol87 said: Now lets do it with the minorities locked up longer than 10 years for bullshit ass drugs. White female cop getting this kind of treatment is bullshit You're preaching to the choir.
October 2, 20196 yr "she made a mistake" No making a mistake is putting diesel in your vehicle instead of gas. Maybe you put salt in your coffee instead of sugar... Dropping two rounds in someone with finality, considering the circumstances and her alleged training; was a measured decision.
October 2, 20196 yr People clearly have a wide range of opinions about the appropriate length for Guyger’s sentence. Part of the problem is that we all have different views on why we put people in prison. Some think we should lock up criminals for long enough to deter others from committing similar crimes. Others believe prison time is necessary due to the severity of the crime or moral wrongdoing. Your belief as to what function incarceration serves will shape how you view the appropriateness of 10 years.
October 2, 20196 yr 19 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said: For the record, knowing that Botham Jean and his family were professing Christians, I was somewhat surprised and shocked at reports that family members "thanked God" after the conviction. My expression of that pissed a few people off. While you can hope in one hand and shit in the other waiting for self-identified Christians to do the Christian thing, and being Christian in these circumstances is super difficult, it's amazing to see that on display. Not sure I completely get what you mean by this, but seems similar to my thought. The brother got to sleep knowing his brother's killer would be held accountable. I wonder if he would have felt the same way if she'd walked or if he'd just chalk it up to God's will. Just a thought. I think that young man deserves to live his life in peace, however he finds it. As did his brother.
October 2, 20196 yr I just can't believe she was found guilty. The first 25 pages of this thread were filled with legal experts saying she wouldn't get convicted of anything. If you can't trust internet lawyers who can you trust.
October 2, 20196 yr 36 minutes ago, Zepol87 said: Now lets do it with the minorities locked up longer than 10 years for bullshit ass drugs. White female cop getting this kind of treatment is bullshit Good luck... you just crossed from the courts to politics especially with weed and mandatory minimums.
October 2, 20196 yr 13 minutes ago, BurdineBandit said: Not sure I completely get what you mean by this, but seems similar to my thought. The brother got to sleep knowing his brother's killer would be held accountable. I wonder if he would have felt the same way if she'd walked or if he'd just chalk it up to God's will. Just a thought. I think that young man deserves to live his life in peace, however he finds it. As did his brother. Judging by his actions today, seems like he might just accept it as God's will. Might have been disappointed, but he, and the rest of the family, seem like they would accept whatever plan God has for them. Whatever it is, they seem capable of much more forgiveness than myself and most of us here, and they should be commended for that, instead of being called out for what they might have done if things turned out differently.
October 2, 20196 yr 1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said: 10 years is nothing to sneeze at. It's plenty. Most sentences are too damned long anyway. If the Balch Springs guy got 15, 10 is appropriate here. Ten years ain't shit unless you think 15 years was enough for shooting into a car full of teenagers driving away.
October 2, 20196 yr Renee Hall - Dallas PD chief speaking now. Said they will have IA investigate all the things brought up in the trial. Edited October 2, 20196 yr by msudawg
October 2, 20196 yr DPD chief says internal affairs investigation to begin now that the trial is over to correct issues raised during the trial. SexCop is still employed by DPD
October 2, 20196 yr 11 minutes ago, bigup2dahorns said: DPD chief says internal affairs investigation to begin now that the trial is over to correct issues raised during the trial. SexCop is still employed by DPD This is important. Transparency. Trust. Genuine apologies to the public. All of those things are necessary. Botham Jean's family offered Amber (and perhaps implicitly, DPD) forgiveness. Now it's their turn to earn what they've already been given.
October 3, 20196 yr Couldn't be me forgiving the person that killed my brother. Hats off to that young man but it couldn't have been me that soon after the trial, that process would have taken years. All of this forgiving is not going to fix the systemic issue when it comes to black bodies in this criminal justice system. The cop that killed LaQuon McDonald only got 7 years.
October 3, 20196 yr 23 minutes ago, Constant said: What a beautiful moment. I hope their healing can finally begin. And watching that....I truly and genuinely hope that a still of that moment can be the image of the year. That moment is everything we need to be.
October 3, 20196 yr 20 minutes ago, Slade said: All of this forgiving is not going to fix the systemic issue when it comes to black bodies in this criminal justice system. The cop that killed LaQuon McDonald only got 7 years. You're right. It's not. But peace can only come when one extends his hand to another. This is how it builds. Now, the justice system, and law enforcement, need to reach back out and earn that forgiveness that they've already been given. Amber Guyger needs to grasp what she did, how she was wrong -- not just mistaken, but wrong -- and offer real apology. And DPD needs to fully and fairly investigate the breakdowns in the system. How did DPD produce an officer who failed so miserably? And DPD needs to highlight every misstep and bit of unfairness and preferential treatment during the response and investigation, and there must be consequences for that. Do I think they'll achieve that? Probably not. But if I can at least see an honest effort, and real progress....that's what we build on. It takes an unbelievable amount of courage to forgive. Courage that I don't know if I have. But I'm glad the Jean family has it. Because courage like that wins fights, and what they're fighting for is so very important.
October 3, 20196 yr I haven’t cried in years, but that video of Botham’s brother forgiving Guyger brought me very very close. Jesus.
October 3, 20196 yr 4 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said: I don’t know what to think of her. Clearly she murdered the guy and a jury made their assessment and I’m good with it. I don’t know if she’s racist or an immature dipshit, and don’t care. Her contrition and wailing when he hugged her was genuine and sad. While there are surely many examples that test the proposition, we have to believe that nobody is beyond redemption. Redemption is a choice, but it's one that I hope she's beginning to make.
October 3, 20196 yr 11 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said: I don’t know what to think of her. Clearly she murdered the guy and a jury made their assessment and I’m good with it. I don’t know if she’s racist or an immature dipshit, and don’t care. Her contrition and wailing when he hugged her was genuine and sad. Like a lot of cops, I think she got pulled into this sense of "I'm the law, I'm empowered to do whatever I think is necessary." It's a failure of how they are trained.
October 3, 20196 yr I agree with the sentiment that the real sentencing problem is that other sentences are too high, and that this sentence would be reasonable in a vacuum. But it's not random chance that we're getting this result with a white female cop who killed an unarmed black man. It's just more evidence of the systematic problem because it shows that things could be done better, but just aren't in cases where the defendant isn't a white woman. Hopefully BLM and others keep up the pressure system-wide, because ten years for murder is absurd relative to many other sentences we've all seen.
October 3, 20196 yr That one demonstration of forgiveness will go further to change any ingrained thoughts of hate more than 100 years in prison would.
October 3, 20196 yr 3 minutes ago, gsoda3 said: That one demonstration of forgiveness will go further to change any ingrained thoughts of hate more than 100 years in prison would. I would like to think so, but how many LEO's outside of Dallas were really paying attention?
October 3, 20196 yr I agree with the sentiment that the real sentencing problem is that other sentences are too high, and that this sentence would be reasonable in a vacuum. But it's not random chance that we're getting this result with a white female cop who killed an unarmed black man. It's just more evidence of the systematic problem because it shows that things could be done better, but just aren't in cases where the defendant isn't a white woman. Hopefully BLM and others keep up the pressure system-wide, because ten years for murder is absurd relative to many other sentences we've all seen. That's my problem with it. I believe honestly that if she hadn't killed a model citizen and very bright and great young man she wouldn't have gotten shit. If she killed some dude in the hood with a prior and a damn traffic warrant or some shit she would have walked. That is the real issue, this won't change shit when it comes to how police believe they are targets and need to be ready for war. 10 years for murdering a dude in his home is nothing
October 3, 20196 yr 13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said: While there are surely many examples that test the proposition, we have to believe that nobody is beyond redemption. Redemption is a choice, but it's one that I hope she's beginning to make. There are people who are beyond redemption. She’s not one of them, but they exist. 3 hours ago, conVINCEd said: I’ve served as a juror once in a criminal case. It took us less than 5 minutes to make a unanimous decision on sentencing (life, which was the max). It was such a terrifying and disgusting case with evidence that left no doubt whatsoever as to guilt, no one really considered anything else. I would imagine there was a pretty big spread on what each juror thought was right on this one. This particular piece of shit did some things to a six-year old that still pop up into my mind 10+ years later, and when it does, I generally don’t sleep well for a few days. It was his third rodeo down this particular road of abuse (putting it lightly) and while I have lost some sleep over this case, it wasn’t because we gave this guy a life sentence.
October 3, 20196 yr 2 hours ago, BurdineBandit said: Not sure I completely get what you mean by this, but seems similar to my thought. The brother got to sleep knowing his brother's killer would be held accountable. I wonder if he would have felt the same way if she'd walked or if he'd just chalk it up to God's will. Just a thought. I think that young man deserves to live his life in peace, however he finds it. As did his brother. What I meant is, there was plenty of opportunity for decidedly un-Christian behavior here. Thanking God for a guilty verdict might well fall into that category, as understandable as it might be. What Brandt Jean did was the best kind of Christian behavior under the worst kind of circumstances, which is when it's most important. We have lots of examples of self-identified Christians behaving in un-Christian ways. Nice to have a counterexample. And, actually, if you follow criminal cases, you see that kind of Christian example from victims with some frequency. Edited October 3, 20196 yr by TwiceHorn
October 3, 20196 yr 3 hours ago, hookem17 said: Wow. I dragged a rather jaded former prosecutor into my office and made her watch that. She was a mess of tears. And she and I have had some heated (yet rational) discussions about this case. That was something I've not seen before.
October 3, 20196 yr Group of protesters marching through downtown tonight antagonizing DPD over the fact she had not got 10 years.That young man didn’t get through to enough people today.Unreal.
October 3, 20196 yr 1 hour ago, Dr. Beeper said: I don’t know what to think of her. Clearly she murdered the guy and a jury made their assessment and I’m good with it. I don’t know if she’s racist or an immature dipshit, and don’t care. Her contrition and wailing when he hugged her was genuine and sad. Yeah, this troubles me. I think we all agree that her actions were unreasonable. But unreasonable does not directly equate to the worst kind of murder. The people combining "unreasonable" with "intentional" and "murder" to arrive at that place are being facile. There's some kind of gray area in there that's beyond my ability to describe or rudimentary psychological understanding. Whatever her mental state at the time, or psychological makeup, I saw evidence of real remorse and that probably spells an ability to make herself a better person, to "rehabilitate" and not repeat the same mistakes. Defining culpability and an appropriate sentence is hard work and requires some serious thought free from being self-righteous or all lathered up about black/white cop/civilian man/woman and the various things that put people in high dudgeon about this case. However they arrived at their sentence, I think the jury did a very fair job. Edited October 3, 20196 yr by TwiceHorn
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