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Featured Replies

No need to limit it to rap or hiphop, any genre, who you got?  I heard this the other day and it got me thinking:

 

The entire Paul's Boutique album. Pretty much most of MF DOOM's early discography. 

I’m disappointed it took this long for this thread to get here…

 

 

  • Author
3 hours ago, mdmost said:

The entire Paul's Boutique album. 

That was what I expected to be the first answer, and I agree.

was "Walk This Way" the first to do samples?  At least mainstream? 

I'll hang up and listen.

4 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

was "Walk This Way" the first to do samples?  At least mainstream? 

I'll hang up and listen.

No. Rapper's Delight was '79 so that's at least 7 years earlier. 

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

No. Rapper's Delight was '79 so that's at least 7 years earlier. 

what did rappers delight sample?  I think I know that "song", but I'm not sure. 

3 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

what did rappers delight sample?  I think I know that "song", but I'm not sure. 

You know you can like, Google all of this stuff and learn a lot and find out all kinds of neat things. 

8 minutes ago, ztejas said:

You know you can like, Google all of this stuff and learn a lot and find out all kinds of neat things. 

yeah, you can Google "lick my asshole". 

We're having a discussion here; if you don't like it, fuck right off. 

1 hour ago, Gil Bang said:

yeah, you can Google "lick my asshole". 

We're having a discussion here; if you don't like it, fuck right off. 

You aren't discussing anything you're just asking questions that you could look the answer up to. 

literally anything and everything made by Nine Inch Nails

recently happened upon this song and was really surprised to hear "that was a good drum break". didn't even realize that was a sample in "where it's at". sounds like beck's voice. anyway, beck uses lots of samples. 

 

 

Sampling I forgot to be your lover


sampling root down and get it

 

15 hours ago, mdmost said:

The entire Paul's Boutique album. Pretty much most of MF DOOM's early discography. 

for the longest time I thought that this was sampling literally some Dave Matthews deepcut. Wrong David Matthews

 

this was the soundtrack to every college party in 2006

oh man just hearing ying yang twins over bittersweet symphony is taking me back

Edited by Celery Man

24 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

for the longest time I thought that this was sampling literally some Dave Matthews deepcut. Wrong David Matthews

 

this was the soundtrack to every college party in 2006

 

If you like that and haven't checked it out before, you should check out Take Me to Your Leader where he's doing his King Ghidorah persona. He's just peppering in Godzilla clips. 

Edited by mdmost

1 hour ago, Celery Man said:

for the longest time I thought that this was sampling literally some Dave Matthews deepcut. Wrong David Matthews

 

this was the soundtrack to every college party in 2006

oh man just hearing ying yang twins over bittersweet symphony is taking me back

 

I’d say all the times I’ve spent in Hickory Farms at the mall as great use of samples. 

18 hours ago, ztejas said:

You know you can like, Google all of this stuff and learn a lot and find out all kinds of neat things. 

aint nobody got time for that GIF

  • Author

Jesus on a Big Wheel, ztejas.  Gatekeep on another thread.

31 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Jesus on a Big Wheel, ztejas.  Gatekeep on another thread.

What am I gatekeeping? Quit being such a spaz. 

  • Author
1 hour ago, ztejas said:

What am I gatekeeping? Quit being such a spaz. 

You could just ignore questions that bother you so much.

19 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

You could just ignore questions that bother you so much.

Or you could read your own fucking thread that you started and quit being such a retard. 

Get a life, dude. Don't you have a wife and kids? 

Fucking loser. 

  • Author
3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Or you could read your own fucking thread that you started and quit being such a retard. 

Get a life, dude. Don't you have a wife and kids? 

Fucking loser. 

Get off the sauce.  I'm pretty sure I'm reading the thread I started since I'm having to comment on your bitchass scolding of people who are asking relevant questions.  Go be a thread cop somewhere else.

Are you a thread cop? If you're a thread cop and we ask you, you have to tell us. 

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Get off the sauce.  I'm pretty sure I'm reading the thread I started since I'm having to comment on your bitchass scolding of people who are asking relevant questions.  Go be a thread cop somewhere else.

I don't care about the shitty thread that you started.

You defending @Gil Bang is fucking hysterical. 

@jimmyjazz what this thread could use is some really shitty Texas basketball takes. Maybe you can drop us some of your knowledge.

Well anyway. Back to our regularly scheduled sample programming. This whole album is chalk full of samples. It's a great concept album which MF DOOM was so good at. 

 

Anything by Public Enemy/Mob Squad.  they didn’t typically sample whole songs, but made a collage from things like horn stabs and piano hits from records they owned like on “Black Steel In The Hour  Of Chaos”

 

Madonna’s use of the James Brown/Clyde Stubblefield “Funky Drummer” beat was great in “Justify My Love”

The looping strings on The Verve’s “Bittersweet Symphony” were sampled from an orchestral version of The Rolling Stones’ “The Last Tims” and that kept the Verve from cashing in on the song.

 

Edited by Goredho

The wild thing about the Verve case is that the Oldham Orchestra version of The Last Time is almost totally unrecognizable from the Stones version. 

1 hour ago, G650 said:

The wild thing about the Verve case is that the Oldham Orchestra version of The Last Time is almost totally unrecognizable from the Stones version. 

Interesting copyright "dilemma."

Oldham duly licensed "the Stones," and the Verve duly licensed Oldham, but not the Stones and the Stones, objected.

The licenses implicitly admit copying, Oldham of the Stones and the Verve of Oldham, so the case was made for the Stones, most likely.

Had there not been such an implicit admission, would the samples of Oldham have been "substantially similar" to the Stones?

Hard for me to not think of Mick Jagger and Keith Richard’s as assholes.  From ChatGPT:

 

The drama around Bittersweet Symphony by The Verve stems from their use of a sample from the Rolling Stones’ The Last Time, specifically the Andrew Oldham Orchestra‘s 1965 orchestral version—not the Stones’ original recording.

Here’s the breakdown:

Sample Clearance: The Verve licensed the sound recording but not the underlying composition (the Jagger/Richards melody). They argued their usage was minimal and transformative.

Lawsuit: ABKCO, owned by Allen Klein (former Stones manager who controlled the rights), sued The Verve for exceeding the agreed-upon usage. The lawsuit resulted in:

The Verve surrendering 100% of the song’s royalties.

Jagger and Richards getting full writing credit.

The Verve’s biggest hit financially benefiting the Stones’ camp.

Aftermath:

Richard Ashcroft, The Verve’s frontman, famously remarked it was “the best song Jagger and Richards have written in 20 years.”

In 2019, Jagger and Richards finally returned the songwriting credits to Ashcroft and relinquished their claim on royalties, though it was decades too late financially.

This is one of the most infamous cases of sampling rights disputes in music history.

8 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Hard for me to not think of Mick Jagger and Keith Richard’s as assholes.  From ChatGPT:

 

The drama around Bittersweet Symphony by The Verve stems from their use of a sample from the Rolling Stones’ The Last Time, specifically the Andrew Oldham Orchestra‘s 1965 orchestral version—not the Stones’ original recording.

Here’s the breakdown:

Sample Clearance: The Verve licensed the sound recording but not the underlying composition (the Jagger/Richards melody). They argued their usage was minimal and transformative.

Lawsuit: ABKCO, owned by Allen Klein (former Stones manager who controlled the rights), sued The Verve for exceeding the agreed-upon usage. The lawsuit resulted in:

The Verve surrendering 100% of the song’s royalties.

Jagger and Richards getting full writing credit.

The Verve’s biggest hit financially benefiting the Stones’ camp.

Aftermath:

Richard Ashcroft, The Verve’s frontman, famously remarked it was “the best song Jagger and Richards have written in 20 years.”

In 2019, Jagger and Richards finally returned the songwriting credits to Ashcroft and relinquished their claim on royalties, though it was decades too late financially.

This is one of the most infamous cases of sampling rights disputes in music history.

I believe this was 100% Klein's doing and once the actual authors learned of it, did the right thing, possibly after reacquiring rights from Klein, as often happens wi superstars. That's why I put "the Stones" in quotes.

Pete Rock has some doozies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I believe this was 100% Klein's doing and once the actual authors learned of it, did the right thing, possibly after reacquiring rights from Klein, as often happens wi superstars. That's why I put "the Stones" in quotes.

Yeah, maybe my feelings are misplaced, but the Verve place the blame on the Stones, and there is no way the right decision is that the Verve get 0%.  There are vocal melodies in that song developed by the Verve, there are chords that provide a harmonic context that make the string melody perceptually different chosen by the Verve, there are lyrics that are wholly those of the Verve’s.

I worked out a solo acoustic instrumental arrangement for live performance and you can’t just play the same 2 bar string melody for 4 minutes or you’d rightfully get run out the room.  You play the chords, you play the vocal melodies, you bring in the string melody at times.  Sure those strings are a big part of the song, but two bars are not a song.  Seems like the right thing would have been 50/50 or 60/40.

15 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Yeah, maybe my feelings are misplaced, but the Verve place the blame on the Stones, and there is no way the right decision is that the Verve get 0%.  There are vocal melodies in that song developed by the Verve, there are chords that provide a harmonic context that make the string melody perceptually different chosen by the Verve, there are lyrics that are wholly those of the Verve’s.

I worked out a solo acoustic instrumental arrangement for live performance and you can’t just play the same 2 bar string melody for 4 minutes or you’d rightfully get run out the room.  You play the chords, you play the vocal melodies, you bring in the string melody at times.  Sure those strings are a big part of the song, but two bars are not a song.  Seems like the right thing would have been 50/50 or 60/40.

That's what I was driving at earlier.  Had there not been the relationship between the parties, would have been an interesting question whether the Verve's sample would have infringed the original work.

And one thing to always bear in mind in music copyright cases:  the owner of the rights is often not the artist/authors, its a manager or record company, so not legally the same entity and often quite or completely "factually" independent (meaning doesn't need and doesn't have the blessing of the artists).

The usual division is that the artists often own the "composition" copyrights (words and music), while a manager or record company owns the rights to the performance/sound recording.  But that can vary quite a lot.

This is one of the first that I was aware was sampling. I'm an old but this really caught my ear.

 

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