July 16Jul 16 No need to limit it to rap or hiphop, any genre, who you got? I heard this the other day and it got me thinking:
July 17Jul 17 I was singing the Baby Blakes / Neil Young version of "Southern Man" the other day. Was never released, but was a good song. And if Dr. Dre can ever find a way to get the estate of Marvin Gaye to let him actually produce this... https://www.instagram.com/reel/ChaEjyBJQau/?igsh=Ym5uOXowdDdycGo5
July 17Jul 17 Author 3 hours ago, mdmost said: The entire Paul's Boutique album. That was what I expected to be the first answer, and I agree.
July 17Jul 17 was "Walk This Way" the first to do samples? At least mainstream? I'll hang up and listen.
July 17Jul 17 4 minutes ago, Gil Bang said: was "Walk This Way" the first to do samples? At least mainstream? I'll hang up and listen. No. Rapper's Delight was '79 so that's at least 7 years earlier.
July 17Jul 17 2 minutes ago, ztejas said: No. Rapper's Delight was '79 so that's at least 7 years earlier. what did rappers delight sample? I think I know that "song", but I'm not sure.
July 17Jul 17 3 minutes ago, Gil Bang said: what did rappers delight sample? I think I know that "song", but I'm not sure. You know you can like, Google all of this stuff and learn a lot and find out all kinds of neat things.
July 17Jul 17 A good site to figure out where your song's samples come from. https://www.whosampled.com/ For instance: https://www.whosampled.com/Beastie-Boys/Hey-Ladies/samples/ But probably the masters of sampling were Daft Punk Edited July 17Jul 17 by mdmost
July 17Jul 17 8 minutes ago, ztejas said: You know you can like, Google all of this stuff and learn a lot and find out all kinds of neat things. yeah, you can Google "lick my asshole". We're having a discussion here; if you don't like it, fuck right off.
July 17Jul 17 1 hour ago, Gil Bang said: yeah, you can Google "lick my asshole". We're having a discussion here; if you don't like it, fuck right off. You aren't discussing anything you're just asking questions that you could look the answer up to.
July 17Jul 17 recently happened upon this song and was really surprised to hear "that was a good drum break". didn't even realize that was a sample in "where it's at". sounds like beck's voice. anyway, beck uses lots of samples.
July 17Jul 17 15 hours ago, mdmost said: The entire Paul's Boutique album. Pretty much most of MF DOOM's early discography. for the longest time I thought that this was sampling literally some Dave Matthews deepcut. Wrong David Matthews this was the soundtrack to every college party in 2006 oh man just hearing ying yang twins over bittersweet symphony is taking me back Edited July 17Jul 17 by Celery Man
July 17Jul 17 24 minutes ago, Celery Man said: for the longest time I thought that this was sampling literally some Dave Matthews deepcut. Wrong David Matthews this was the soundtrack to every college party in 2006 If you like that and haven't checked it out before, you should check out Take Me to Your Leader where he's doing his King Ghidorah persona. He's just peppering in Godzilla clips. Edited July 17Jul 17 by mdmost
July 17Jul 17 1 hour ago, Celery Man said: for the longest time I thought that this was sampling literally some Dave Matthews deepcut. Wrong David Matthews this was the soundtrack to every college party in 2006 oh man just hearing ying yang twins over bittersweet symphony is taking me back
July 17Jul 17 18 hours ago, ztejas said: You know you can like, Google all of this stuff and learn a lot and find out all kinds of neat things.
July 18Jul 18 31 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said: Jesus on a Big Wheel, ztejas. Gatekeep on another thread. What am I gatekeeping? Quit being such a spaz.
July 18Jul 18 Author 1 hour ago, ztejas said: What am I gatekeeping? Quit being such a spaz. You could just ignore questions that bother you so much.
July 18Jul 18 19 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said: You could just ignore questions that bother you so much. Or you could read your own fucking thread that you started and quit being such a retard. Get a life, dude. Don't you have a wife and kids? Fucking loser.
July 18Jul 18 Author 3 minutes ago, ztejas said: Or you could read your own fucking thread that you started and quit being such a retard. Get a life, dude. Don't you have a wife and kids? Fucking loser. Get off the sauce. I'm pretty sure I'm reading the thread I started since I'm having to comment on your bitchass scolding of people who are asking relevant questions. Go be a thread cop somewhere else.
July 18Jul 18 3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said: Get off the sauce. I'm pretty sure I'm reading the thread I started since I'm having to comment on your bitchass scolding of people who are asking relevant questions. Go be a thread cop somewhere else. I don't care about the shitty thread that you started. You defending @Gil Bang is fucking hysterical.
July 18Jul 18 @jimmyjazz what this thread could use is some really shitty Texas basketball takes. Maybe you can drop us some of your knowledge.
July 18Jul 18 Well anyway. Back to our regularly scheduled sample programming. This whole album is chalk full of samples. It's a great concept album which MF DOOM was so good at.
July 18Jul 18 Anything by Public Enemy/Mob Squad. they didn’t typically sample whole songs, but made a collage from things like horn stabs and piano hits from records they owned like on “Black Steel In The Hour Of Chaos” Madonna’s use of the James Brown/Clyde Stubblefield “Funky Drummer” beat was great in “Justify My Love” The looping strings on The Verve’s “Bittersweet Symphony” were sampled from an orchestral version of The Rolling Stones’ “The Last Tims” and that kept the Verve from cashing in on the song. Edited July 18Jul 18 by Goredho
July 18Jul 18 The wild thing about the Verve case is that the Oldham Orchestra version of The Last Time is almost totally unrecognizable from the Stones version.
July 18Jul 18 1 hour ago, G650 said: The wild thing about the Verve case is that the Oldham Orchestra version of The Last Time is almost totally unrecognizable from the Stones version. Interesting copyright "dilemma." Oldham duly licensed "the Stones," and the Verve duly licensed Oldham, but not the Stones and the Stones, objected. The licenses implicitly admit copying, Oldham of the Stones and the Verve of Oldham, so the case was made for the Stones, most likely. Had there not been such an implicit admission, would the samples of Oldham have been "substantially similar" to the Stones?
July 18Jul 18 Hard for me to not think of Mick Jagger and Keith Richard’s as assholes. From ChatGPT: The drama around Bittersweet Symphony by The Verve stems from their use of a sample from the Rolling Stones’ The Last Time, specifically the Andrew Oldham Orchestra‘s 1965 orchestral version—not the Stones’ original recording. Here’s the breakdown: Sample Clearance: The Verve licensed the sound recording but not the underlying composition (the Jagger/Richards melody). They argued their usage was minimal and transformative. Lawsuit: ABKCO, owned by Allen Klein (former Stones manager who controlled the rights), sued The Verve for exceeding the agreed-upon usage. The lawsuit resulted in: The Verve surrendering 100% of the song’s royalties. Jagger and Richards getting full writing credit. The Verve’s biggest hit financially benefiting the Stones’ camp. Aftermath: Richard Ashcroft, The Verve’s frontman, famously remarked it was “the best song Jagger and Richards have written in 20 years.” In 2019, Jagger and Richards finally returned the songwriting credits to Ashcroft and relinquished their claim on royalties, though it was decades too late financially. This is one of the most infamous cases of sampling rights disputes in music history.
July 18Jul 18 8 minutes ago, Goredho said: Hard for me to not think of Mick Jagger and Keith Richard’s as assholes. From ChatGPT: The drama around Bittersweet Symphony by The Verve stems from their use of a sample from the Rolling Stones’ The Last Time, specifically the Andrew Oldham Orchestra‘s 1965 orchestral version—not the Stones’ original recording. Here’s the breakdown: Sample Clearance: The Verve licensed the sound recording but not the underlying composition (the Jagger/Richards melody). They argued their usage was minimal and transformative. Lawsuit: ABKCO, owned by Allen Klein (former Stones manager who controlled the rights), sued The Verve for exceeding the agreed-upon usage. The lawsuit resulted in: The Verve surrendering 100% of the song’s royalties. Jagger and Richards getting full writing credit. The Verve’s biggest hit financially benefiting the Stones’ camp. Aftermath: Richard Ashcroft, The Verve’s frontman, famously remarked it was “the best song Jagger and Richards have written in 20 years.” In 2019, Jagger and Richards finally returned the songwriting credits to Ashcroft and relinquished their claim on royalties, though it was decades too late financially. This is one of the most infamous cases of sampling rights disputes in music history. I believe this was 100% Klein's doing and once the actual authors learned of it, did the right thing, possibly after reacquiring rights from Klein, as often happens wi superstars. That's why I put "the Stones" in quotes.
July 18Jul 18 2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said: I believe this was 100% Klein's doing and once the actual authors learned of it, did the right thing, possibly after reacquiring rights from Klein, as often happens wi superstars. That's why I put "the Stones" in quotes. Yeah, maybe my feelings are misplaced, but the Verve place the blame on the Stones, and there is no way the right decision is that the Verve get 0%. There are vocal melodies in that song developed by the Verve, there are chords that provide a harmonic context that make the string melody perceptually different chosen by the Verve, there are lyrics that are wholly those of the Verve’s. I worked out a solo acoustic instrumental arrangement for live performance and you can’t just play the same 2 bar string melody for 4 minutes or you’d rightfully get run out the room. You play the chords, you play the vocal melodies, you bring in the string melody at times. Sure those strings are a big part of the song, but two bars are not a song. Seems like the right thing would have been 50/50 or 60/40.
July 18Jul 18 15 minutes ago, Goredho said: Yeah, maybe my feelings are misplaced, but the Verve place the blame on the Stones, and there is no way the right decision is that the Verve get 0%. There are vocal melodies in that song developed by the Verve, there are chords that provide a harmonic context that make the string melody perceptually different chosen by the Verve, there are lyrics that are wholly those of the Verve’s. I worked out a solo acoustic instrumental arrangement for live performance and you can’t just play the same 2 bar string melody for 4 minutes or you’d rightfully get run out the room. You play the chords, you play the vocal melodies, you bring in the string melody at times. Sure those strings are a big part of the song, but two bars are not a song. Seems like the right thing would have been 50/50 or 60/40. That's what I was driving at earlier. Had there not been the relationship between the parties, would have been an interesting question whether the Verve's sample would have infringed the original work. And one thing to always bear in mind in music copyright cases: the owner of the rights is often not the artist/authors, its a manager or record company, so not legally the same entity and often quite or completely "factually" independent (meaning doesn't need and doesn't have the blessing of the artists). The usual division is that the artists often own the "composition" copyrights (words and music), while a manager or record company owns the rights to the performance/sound recording. But that can vary quite a lot.
July 18Jul 18 This is one of the first that I was aware was sampling. I'm an old but this really caught my ear.
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