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I would just like to take a moment...

 

January-Jones.jpg

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  • henrygandorf
    henrygandorf

    i like betty's character and her storylines are crucial the first time (or 3) that you go through the series. but yeah, when i rewatch, i want office shit. and when i say i like her character, i mean

  • You may have seen this already but it's an analysis of a scene in Shut the Door, Have a Seat  

  • BlueGreySky
    BlueGreySky

    Whoa, Fat Betty - bam-ba-lam.

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1 hour ago, Parliament said:

Not sure why all the hate.  Glen, otoh...  I hope he died in Vietnam.

i assumed friendly fire incident. unreported.

On 10/30/2025 at 12:31 PM, henrygandorf said:

i think pete and peggy kinda drank what others poured them, but i wanna say gin was in the mix. and i think lane drank gin.

Pete drank Cutty Sark quite regularly.  

Also, S5 had such a great ending.  One of the top soundtrack matches for the series.

 

 

(don't listen to them, skip the betty scenes)

Zou Bisou Bisou is the only reason Megan isn't worse than Betty. At least Betty had good teeth.

i mean, don't skip the betty scenes the first time you're watching it, obviously. maybe not even on a years-later rewatch. but once you're completely familiar, yeah, put them shits in the rearview asap.

Betty's purpose was to show a different class of victims of the wild chauvinism of that era. 

There's a pretty good argument that she should have been portrayed more sympathetically for that purpose.

Then why was she such a bitch?

2 hours ago, RPM said:

Zou Bisou Bisou is the only reason Megan isn't worse than Betty. At least Betty had good teeth.

horse GIF

I don't skip anything, regardless of whether I like a character.  To understand the women in Don's life and how he relates to them is to better understand Don's character.  The finale makes that point not so subtly.

Hell, one of the first thing the show asks us is, "What do women want?"  Answer: A chance to get closer.

Edited by dcbc

6 hours ago, RPM said:

Then why was she such a bitch?

Chauvinism and misogyny?

But, more realistically, perhaps, I think she was intended to represent the underutilized housewife whose dreams and aspirations were crushed by domesticity.  The topic of Mother's Little Helper.  Why they had her express that as bitchiness is a good question.

To some extent, it postpones the viewer's candid assessment of Don, so he's not unlikeable from jump.

2 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Folks who don't like Betty, what kinda character would you replace her with?

Well, you could make her a more sympathetic, less bitchy frustrated, depressed, and drug-addicted housewife that is kinder to her kids.

But that would make Don seem more like the dickhead that he probably is sooner than you discover that.

Betty is no Carmela.  Don't even go there.

37 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Folks who don't like Betty, what kinda character would you replace her with?

Nobody dislikes Betty, the character is just given too much screen time.

January is hot, obviously.

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20 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Chauvinism and misogyny?

But, more realistically, perhaps, I think she was intended to represent the underutilized housewife whose dreams and aspirations were crushed by domesticity.  The topic of Mother's Little Helper.  Why they had her express that as bitchiness is a good question.

To some extent, it postpones the viewer's candid assessment of Don, so he's not unlikeable from jump.

i like betty's character and her storylines are crucial the first time (or 3) that you go through the series. but yeah, when i rewatch, i want office shit. and when i say i like her character, i mean i like how it's written and played. you're not supposed to 'like' or 'admire' betty draper. she's an instrument. she's a reflection. she shows us who don is and to a certain extent, who roger is.

what i really like in her character arc from s2-s3 is that she knows she's mad but doesn't really know why. she wants to be mad because she's quite positive don is cheating on her, but cannot prove it (finds only slogans on cocktail napkins in his pockets). that said, she's certain don is "hiding things from her" and she has that suspicion confirmed when she finds out he has a secret past/alternate identity/name/family, culminating in the gypsy and the hobo kitchen scene, which should've yielded every emmy imaginable.

it's where she is able to turn off the snark "oh i know, you're a very gifted storyteller" to some real empathy "i always assumed you were a football hero who hated his father" and "i knew you were poor, i've seen how you are with money, you don't understand it." we also see this in the scenes with her family, notably her brother, played by the incomparable eric ladin. i actually really like the hofstadt storylines throughout s2 and s3 and could've managed more of it, but obviously s4 went away from all things betty.

if i really put my women's empowerment hat on, i could even say that her s3-s4 arc is equally impressive, because it shows how strong and brave she was to want to get away from a destructive situation and actually act on it, whereas most women of the time would've stayed in an unhappy marriage because of 3 small children and all the money she could ask for. it's when she leaves to be with henry that we get a different pov on the whole thing. he will do anything to be with her - his character (underrated) always reminded me of sterling. a bit older, wiser, and willing to call a brat a brat. but like roger, he wanted what he wanted when he wanted it, and it didn't end well.

don writes her a letter basically saying that if they split up, she'll move on and find someone, but he'll be alone forever. even if he meant that metaphorically (he had to), we know what he really means and how he really feels. don, surrounded by people, is forever alone. always on the verge of panic and running away, not caring what he leaves in his wake.

one of my favorite story turns is how it doesn't take long for henry to tire of betty's shit, and that's the real moment that we know - she's the problem. betty is going to betty. she's incredibly consistent. her mother was a bitch and passed it on. her dad was a hardass who didn't make things better. everything wrong with sally is wrong because of betty.

don, in comparison, is surprisingly empathetic and thoughtful, which is why he's such a piece of talent in the advertising space. don has the ability to achieve perfection, because donald draper is an entirely fabricated individual. and if you were going to invent someone, you'd invent someone with minimal flaws. he had a traumatic childhood, upbringing, young-adulthood. but it never happened. it will shock you how much it never happened.

Edited by henrygandorf

17 hours ago, Parliament said:

Folks who don't like Betty, what kinda character would you replace her with?

I’d make her a swinger. With a deep dive into her proclivities.

 

But maybe that’s just me. 

44 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

I’d make her a swinger. With a deep dive into her proclivities.

Go on...

On 11/4/2025 at 2:07 PM, RPM said:

Then why was she such a bitch?

She longed to be a model living in the city. Don moved her out to the burbs and he got to live the NYC life.  She was jealous and mad and felt like she missed out 

  • 3 weeks later...
On 11/13/2025 at 11:28 AM, LonghornSean said:

Ooh I think it’s time for a rewatch.

 

So about that (it looks beautiful, but this hilarious. I watched and confirmed)

 

 

22 minutes ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

So about that (it looks beautiful, but this hilarious. I watched and confirmed)

 

 

I love shit like that because it's a reminder on just how remarkably talented the performers are to simulate reality while ignoring all of the crew and filming apparatus out of the frame.  

15 hours ago, LCHorn said:

I love shit like that because it's a reminder on just how remarkably talented the performers are to simulate reality while ignoring all of the crew and filming apparatus out of the frame.  

Sort of gives you a new respect for porn stars, doesn’t it?

36 minutes ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

boogie nights GIF

Username checks out.

One of the AMC subchannels runs Mad Men nonstop and Pluto has a Mad Men channel. Nice fall back when there's nothing interesting on.

3 hours ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

boogie nights GIF

rip ricky jay and phil hoffman. watch your back, macy.

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

rip ricky jay

I had no idea his character's name was Kurt Longjohn. 

On 8/8/2025 at 7:50 AM, utee94 said:

Which also happens to be what young utee94 used to replace the stolen aged tequila in his parents' liquor cabinet circa 1988.

 

My dad didn't discover it until sometime in the late 90s.  We had a good laugh over it.

 

 

I had a similar. When my older brother was headed back to UT one thanksgiving, my dad went ot check my brothers car for air in the tires, fluids, etc.  Came back in with a bottle of vodka under each arm (that cheap crap in the plastic bottle, McCormicks or something?)  Brother was pissed.  Dad was grinning.  I was scheming.  

A few months later parents were gone and I had a big party.  Took a screw driver, popped those caps off without breaking the safety seal and poured the vodka into milk jugs.  Filled the bottles with water and put them back.  My parents drank a reasonable amount, but it was alwasy scotch or bourbon, so in the next 4-5 years, they didn't finish the bottle of decent vodka they had much less get into my brother's stash.

Day finally comes and my dad is getting ready to make something with vodka for everyone at Christmas.  I ask him if I can see the bottle, he hands it to me, and I proceed to chug down like that scene in Animal House.  My parents just stare at me in horror.  I didn't drink the whole thing, but I slammed it back down and said "Thanks, I really needed that!"  

Then my brother starts laughing, I start laughing and my parents are realize something is up.  Brother had taught me that trick about popping tops without breaking the seal.  He says "You son of a bitch, you drank my vodka years ago, didn't you?"  I say "yes, and it was a hell of a party!"  Then we explained what I'd done.  Mom thought it was hilarious.  Dad was impressed but then made me get in the car and go buy him two new bottles!

On 11/3/2025 at 2:30 PM, Parliament said:

Betty's story arc at the end was fine.  Not as good as many others, but still.  Ms. Jones is a decent actress and played Betty as a generally bad person.

Not sure why all the hate.  Glen, otoh...  I hope he died in Vietnam.

 

 

Apparantely she was a raging bitch on set.  One of the actors who played the son told the actor taking over from him to avoid her at all costs.

3 minutes ago, Hellraiser97 said:

I had a similar. When my older brother was headed back to UT one thanksgiving, my dad went ot check my brothers car for air in the tires, fluids, etc.  Came back in with a bottle of vodka under each arm (that cheap crap in the plastic bottle, McCormicks or something?)  Brother was pissed.  Dad was grinning.  I was scheming.  

A few months later parents were gone and I had a big party.  Took a screw driver, popped those caps off without breaking the safety seal and poured the vodka into milk jugs.  Filled the bottles with water and put them back.  My parents drank a reasonable amount, but it was alwasy scotch or bourbon, so in the next 4-5 years, they didn't finish the bottle of decent vodka they had much less get into my brother's stash.

Day finally comes and my dad is getting ready to make something with vodka for everyone at Christmas.  I ask him if I can see the bottle, he hands it to me, and I proceed to chug down like that scene in Animal House.  My parents just stare at me in horror.  I didn't drink the whole thing, but I slammed it back down and said "Thanks, I really needed that!"  

Then my brother starts laughing, I start laughing and my parents are realize something is up.  Brother had taught me that trick about popping tops without breaking the seal.  He says "You son of a bitch, you drank my vodka years ago, didn't you?"  I say "yes, and it was a hell of a party!"  Then we explained what I'd done.  Mom thought it was hilarious.  Dad was impressed but then made me get in the car and go buy him two new bottles!

Point of order, it wasn't actually "his" vodka.  Apparently yours or your bros.

You got rooked.

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Point of order, it wasn't actually "his" vodka.  Apparently yours or your bros.

You got rooked.

True.  My father was a thief, but firmly believes possession is 9/10ths of the law.  Spoiler though, I drank those bottles too!

2 minutes ago, Hellraiser97 said:

True.  My father was a thief, but firmly believes possession is 9/10ths of the law.  Spoiler though, I drank those bottles too!

 

I was responding to a Reddit post about Diana and why Don decides to try to find her, and ended up finally putting some thoughts down about the last few episodes. I could be completely off base, but I've been meaning to write it down for a while.  This is an extension of my previous post about how the last couple of episodes lay out Don's relationship to various women on the show, how his relationship with them and their resulting perception of him unfolds as some sort of quest to discover his identity ("Who is Don Draper?"), and how it plays into the last two scenes of the finale:

The last few episodes have a few vignettes in which we see several of Don's relationships with women wherein he seeks a connection (he wants to feel needed) and is rebuffed. It happens with Diana's estranged husband---Diana* in absentia), Sally, Betty, and Stephanie (lover, father, former ex-husband, and whatever (Stephanie doesn't know either). It probably happened earlier with Megan (Don as financial provider).  Finally, he gets to Peggy.  He's hit an emotional rock-bottom.  But she doesn't rebuff him.  He lays himself bare to her and she tells him it isn't true (even though we know it is), he is needed ,and that he should "come home." 

Anyway, Peggy's acceptance** of Don seems to give him a sense of ultimate identity (his professional identity), and that leads into the group session where Leonard talks about being the item in the refrigerator which just wants to be chosen. Leonard describes himself as a commodity and this allows Don to connect with him---he's an ad man after all--- at which point, Don is able to experience empathy toward Leonard, which experience forms the seed of the Coke Commercial with people as the product who just want to be needed.

 

*Diana is a stand-in for all of the lovers to some degree. But she resembled Rachel and Don first encounters her after he finds out Rachel died, which was the initial attraction, and her husband says something to Don about her that is an indictment of Don's character (I can't recall precisely).  But whatever he says, fits the string of Don's being rebuffed by the women in his life.

 

**"What do women want?  A chance to get closer."  Peggy has managed to get closer to Don than just about anyone on the show (save for Anna) and, obviously, she doesn't know everything about his failings in his personal life, she, as a reflection of him throughout the show, is close enough to him to answer the Who is Don Draper? question.

Edited by dcbc

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