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#71301
2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

The big thing it can do is easily handle most of the NATO aerial weapons, rather than making the Ukrainians Jerry rig stuff to their MiGs.  

Not to mention it's pretty adept at close quarters air support for both forward infantry or rear arty batteries.  

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  • AUS-97HORN
    AUS-97HORN

    For the love of Christ woman,  stop posting the same fucking thing every 20 mins just to make your neurotic self feel better.     Bring something useful to the thread other than your inane babbli

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  • InkaUtexas
    InkaUtexas

    I volunteered today. Log/Admin role to replace people for 30-60 days. The operation is in the west, or should the Orcs win will be pulled back behind the NATO wall. Either way the humanitarian effort

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#71302
4 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

This is the larger problem with the ATACMs, there simply isn't much of a store of them.  The program was cancelled almost 20 years ago and our stocks are estimated to be around 1k.  This part is entirely a guess, but I'm betting most of our stores are deployed in 2 places, Poland and Taiwan.  So in order to use these you have 2 shitty choices, take them away from Poland and Taiwan and leave either of them potentially vulnerable (I would guess Poland given the situation) or recommence their manufacture; which will take considerable lead time and expense.  Neither of these options really appear to be in play at the moment.  

This is correct and the replacement for them, the PrSM isn’t in full production yet.  So we have a limited stock and no replacement.  Lockheed is producing some few hundred a year but those are going to fill contracts to other countries that they certainly aren’t going to breach.  So not sending ATACMS is more about our deficiencies than not wanting to escalate things, we just don’t want to publicly admit it.

#71303
2 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

FAFO

 

Ukrainian HIMARS strike on a building with Russian soldiers in it.That’s 182 000 tungsten balls in action. https://t.co/3fjVVrSInz

 

giphy.gif

#71304
UKR's counteroffensive is advancing in the Zaporizhia-#Donetsk Obl. border area & in W. #Zaporizhia Obl.In a new ep. of the ISW Briefing Room, ISW #Russia analyst @KarolinaAHird examines the tactically significant gains that UKR has made in these areas.https://t.co/pdiyafWERO

 

Edited by Schulz2.0

#71307
3 hours ago, Schulz2.0 said:
Geolocated video show slight UA advance north of Verbove (Robotyne area)

 

Germany updated the list of Delivered military support to Ukraine:- 2 IRIS-T SLS launchers- 4,539 rounds 155mm smoke ammunition- 18 ground surveillance radars GO12- 4 truck tractor trains 8x8 HX81 and 4 semi-trailers- 8 load-handling trucks 15thttps://t.co/HudvW2crKM

 

 

Have the Ukes fully recaptured Robotyne? If not, Admiral Hunter reporting with his 3rd cup.

image.thumb.jpeg.f739e10f7d71e9d1adc1833718fb85bb.jpeg

Gloval went out the airlock.

#71308
6 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

FAFO

 

Ukrainian HIMARS strike on a building with Russian soldiers in it.That’s 182 000 tungsten balls in action. https://t.co/3fjVVrSInz

 

 

#71309

So if they get Tokmak under constant artillery fire, and start pushing the Russians out of the Tokmak area....that could help clear the areas west of Tokmak and towards the water.

More importantly, that's 39 miles to Melitopol.  That's HIMARS range, but that's also only 39 miles and starts creeping towards barrel arty range.

Can't wait for the Russian milbloggers to be shitting themselves over that.

 

#71311
5 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

So if they get Tokmak under constant artillery fire, and start pushing the Russians out of the Tokmak area....that could help clear the areas west of Tokmak and towards the water.

More importantly, that's 39 miles to Melitopol.  That's HIMARS range, but that's also only 39 miles and starts creeping towards barrel arty range.

Can't wait for the Russian milbloggers to be shitting themselves over that.

 

I was speaking with a Ukranian today who grew up in the Donbas about 40mi north of the nuclear power plant who said he has never heard of some of the villages they are talking about in the blogs. I told him that I know more cities in Ukraine than Iowa. I should have asked him some more interesting questions - what would you ask a geopolitical expert who grew up in Ukraine?

#71312
4 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Will the UKA have an advantage in arty firepower and counter battery?  Will they be able to just set up shop and start blasting?

They already do in counter-battery - Russians have complained a lot about that.  The stuff they've gotten from the West has generally been more accurate and able to respond much quicker, leading to heavy Russian losses.  Especially with HIMARS in the mix - they've been able to keep those out of range of the Russian barrel artillery, while still able to quickly use it against Russian barrel artillery that the radars located.

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#71313
2 hours ago, Bevo said:

I was speaking with a Ukranian today who grew up in the Donbas about 40mi north of the nuclear power plant who said he has never heard of some of the villages they are talking about in the blogs. I told him that I know more cities in Ukraine than Iowa. I should have asked him some more interesting questions - what would you ask a geopolitical expert who grew up in Ukraine?

What's the best way to pick up Ukrainian foxes?

steve martin two wild and crazy guys GIF by Saturday Night Live

Edited by MissingInAction

#71314
20 minutes ago, Bevo said:

I was speaking with a Ukranian today who grew up in the Donbas about 40mi north of the nuclear power plant who said he has never heard of some of the villages they are talking about in the blogs. I told him that I know more cities in Ukraine than Iowa. I should have asked him some more interesting questions - what would you ask a geopolitical expert who grew up in Ukraine?

Just a question from me if possible.  Something I'm not entirely clear on the amount of Ukrainian unity and identity given the number of ethnic groups that actually comprise Ukraine?  For example, would the Ukrainian Tartars consider themselves Tartars who happen to be Ukrainians or vice versa.  Would the conflict have changed any of this in regard to national identity? 

I think it's easy to forget, but from Soviet times lots of people wound up in Ukraine due to forced relocation, migrant work, etc.  How does all that mesh?  

All that would be interesting to know from your acquaintance.  

#71316
The Czech Republic will hand over Mi-24 attack helicopters to Ukraine, the Ministry of Defense of the Czech Republic confirms

 

Another big military procurement deal in Poland!Poland has signed a deal to buy 400 polonized versions of Kia’s KLTV 4x4 Light Tactical Reconnaissance Vehicles with machine guns or grenade launchers for EUR 270 million.Production and service will take place in Poland.🇵🇱🇰🇷

 

 

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#71317
BREAKING:Ukrainian naval drones have just attacked 2 vessels of the Russian Navy, Pytlivyy & Vasily Bykov.Vasily Bykov was the vessel that attacked the Turkish dry cargo ship Sukru Okan near the Turkish coast a few days ago.The Russians claim the vessels were not damaged.

 

Fearless Ukrainian soldiers continue shooting at Russian positions from their Polish-donated PT-91 Twardy tank despite being under intense Russian artillery fire.Recorded near Urozhaine a few days ago.Nerves of steel!🇺🇦🇵🇱

 

 

#71320
2 minutes ago, Hook1997 said:

https://apple.news/ApwiRVaibQfeNg_H37viAdw

Well that sucks if true.  

IMG_4225.png

Who in US intelligence thinks this?  What percentage of the community are they?  There will be a spectrum of thought within the intelligence community, and this may only represent a small part of it.  It would also be exactly what Russian operatives would put out to plant and water the seeds of doubt.

That assertion is interesting, but I'll wait to see what plays out.

#71321
9 minutes ago, Hook1997 said:

https://apple.news/ApwiRVaibQfeNg_H37viAdw

Well that sucks if true.  

IMG_4225.png

We seem to have vastly underestimated how much Russia fortified and mined the south. We also asked Ukraine to go out and do combined arms warfare without really giving them the tools to do so. The Russians have had better air capability for a while. We haven't delivered nearly the MBTs, AFVs, IFVs, etc that Ukraine needed. If anything, we should recognize that we underestimated and underdelivered. 

Edited by Schulz2.0

#71322
23 minutes ago, Schulz2.0 said:

We seem to have vastly underestimated how much Russia fortified and mined the south. We also asked Ukraine to go out and do combined arms warfare without really giving them the tools to do so. The Russians have had better air capability for a while. We haven't delivered nearly the MBTs, AFVs, IFVs, etc that Ukraine needed. If anything, we should recognize that we underestimated and underdelivered. 

I'm not giving up hope yet, we have about 6 weeks until the rains, so there is time, but something needs to give soon if they are to make that sort of progress.  Perhaps it's and Alabama vs Texas tradition, every time we play the Ukrainians make huge advances?  After the rains, the south won't see much action until January.  

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#71323

Regardless of whether it happens within the next 6 weeks or not, we need to be committed to continuing support until it does.

#71324
11 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

I'm not giving up hope yet, we have about 6 weeks until the rains, so there is time, but something needs to give soon if they are to make that sort of progress.  Perhaps it's and Alabama vs Texas tradition, every time we play the Ukrainians make huge advances?  After the rains, the south won't see much action until January.  

Maybe by January they'll actually get the Abrams.

#71325
8 minutes ago, Auto Driller said:

Regardless of whether it happens within the next 6 weeks or not, we need to be committed to continuing support until it does.

Signaling long term weapon deliveries is the best thing we could do to send message to Russia that it isn't going to be able to outlast Ukraine. 

#71327
3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Signaling long term weapon deliveries is the best thing we could do to send message to Russia that it isn't going to be able to outlast Ukraine. 

I’m sure the thinking inside Russia is that they just need to last until the presidential election. I don’t mean this as a political comment because I have no idea who will win. But we don’t have a good track record of sticking behind existing foreign policy on changes of administration.

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#71328
11 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

that's wrong. we'll have to agree to disagree.

It’s not entirely wrong.  You can’t just throw a few F16s in the air and yell WooHoo! There is a shitload of infrastructure in terms of datalink and sensor networks and radio terminals that you have to have in place or the planes are no better than manned drones.  That infrastructure and combined command and control is not easily learned in a few weeks.  We’re talking 50 years of C2 network development these planes are designed to work within and Ukraine doesn’t have that background yet.  Yet.  We WANT them to have it now but it isn’t something that happens overnight.  Yeah we could give them 10 F16s tomorrow but their effectiveness would be shit without training and network infrastructure.  

#71329
It’s not entirely wrong.  You can’t just throw a few F16s in the air and yell WooHoo! There is a shitload of infrastructure in terms of datalink and sensor networks and radio terminals that you have to have in place or the planes are no better than manned drones.  That infrastructure and combined command and control is not easily learned in a few weeks.  We’re talking 50 years of C2 network development these planes are designed to work within and Ukraine doesn’t have that background yet.  Yet.  We WANT them to have it now but it isn’t something that happens overnight.  Yeah we could give them 10 F16s tomorrow but their effectiveness would be shit without training and network infrastructure.  

I’m not sure why people don’t understand this.
#71330
2 minutes ago, Handcruser said:


I’m not sure why people don’t understand this.

Well I understand it because I’ve been working in it for 30 years.  I get that the average person doesn’t understand that for every pilot in the sky, there are probably 50 to 100 people on the ground supporting it.   

#71331
It’s not entirely wrong.  You can’t just throw a few F16s in the air and yell WooHoo! There is a shitload of infrastructure in terms of datalink and sensor networks and radio terminals that you have to have in place or the planes are no better than manned drones.  That infrastructure and combined command and control is not easily learned in a few weeks.  We’re talking 50 years of C2 network development these planes are designed to work within and Ukraine doesn’t have that background yet.  Yet.  We WANT them to have it now but it isn’t something that happens overnight.  Yeah we could give them 10 F16s tomorrow but their effectiveness would be shit without training and network infrastructure.  

I’m not sure why people don’t understand this.
#71336

Seriously though a lot of the stuff we grump about on this thread isn’t just point and shoot.  And remember that up until a couple years ago, right or not, Ukraine wasn’t necessarily a country we wanted to give out top of the line weapons to.  New shit has come to light.  

#71337
27 minutes ago, Handcruser said:


I’m not sure why people don’t understand this.

Uhh, some of do understand its not as easy as just handing F-16s to Ukraine. We're annoyed that we've hemmed and hawwed about giving multiple weapons to Ukraine and generally dragged our feet at every step. We argued for 6+ months that Ukraine didn't need F-16s before reluctantly agreeing that it was the only viable platform for the. We've drug our heels just granting permission for our allies to train Ukrainian pilots.

#71338
1 minute ago, Schulz2.0 said:

Uhh, some of do understand its not as easy as just handing F-16s to Ukraine. We're annoyed that we've hemmed and hawwed about giving multiple weapons to Ukraine and generally dragged our feet at every step. We argued for 6+ months that Ukraine didn't need F-16s before reluctantly agreeing that it was the only viable platform for the. We've drug our heels just granting permission for our allies to train Ukrainian pilots.

It’s a hard truth but part of the reason for that is once you let that cat out of the bag, you’d better win or else your whole allied interoperability network is compromised.   There’s a reason that not a lot of non-nato countries don’t have MIDS terminals or Link 16 capabilities.  

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#71339
BREAKING:Ukrainian drones are attacking Moscow

 

 

#71340
13 minutes ago, Schulz2.0 said:

Uhh, some of do understand its not as easy as just handing F-16s to Ukraine. We're annoyed that we've hemmed and hawwed about giving multiple weapons to Ukraine and generally dragged our feet at every step. We argued for 6+ months that Ukraine didn't need F-16s before reluctantly agreeing that it was the only viable platform for the. We've drug our heels just granting permission for our allies to train Ukrainian pilots.

FWIW, I agree that there has been a lot of foot dragging, much of it caused by the political dysfunction here.  If we were a unified front we could have said ok, every weapon and armored vehicle in storage we aren’t going to use for future deployment goes to Ukraine.   But that just isnt possible because the USA can’t agree that we are on wartime footing here.  
 

#71341
8 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

It’s a hard truth but part of the reason for that is once you let that cat out of the bag, you’d better win or else your whole allied interoperability network is compromised.   There’s a reason that not a lot of non-nato countries don’t have MIDS terminals or Link 16 capabilities.  

A lot of countries have F16s:

Middle East

  • Bahrain.
  • Egypt.
  • Israel.
  • Iraq.
  • Jordan.
  • Oman.
  • United Arab Emirates.

 

South America

  • Chile.
  • Venesuela.
  • Colombia (future).

 

Asia:

  • Indonesia.
  • Pakistan.
  • Singapore.
  • South Korea.
  • Taiwan.
  • Thailand.

 

 

#71342
14 minutes ago, Bevo said:

A lot of countries have F16s:

Middle East

  • Bahrain.
  • Egypt.
  • Israel.
  • Iraq.
  • Jordan.
  • Oman.
  • United Arab Emirates.

 

South America

  • Chile.
  • Venesuela.
  • Colombia (future).

 

Asia:

  • Indonesia.
  • Pakistan.
  • Singapore.
  • South Korea.
  • Taiwan.
  • Thailand.

 

 

True, but none of those countries received, trained and integrated them in an 18 month period.   Also a lot of them are operating on older TDL networks like JTIDS.  I want Ukraine to get F16s as fast as possible, I’m just saying it’s not a simple, fast  process.  

#71343

VeneZUELA please..... And their shit is not flying anymore due to sanctions. 

Train their pilots and maintenance people asap. In the meantime work with allies to get them what they know and are ready to use now. Then backfill everyone with Falcons or  F-35's. Shit there should be F-15's patrolling the Russian Border 24/7.  

#71344

If they can't take Mariupol before the rains hit, what are the possibilities that they can get close enough to rain terror on the land route to rain enough terror down from the skies to effectively shut off Russia' land route? Obviously that would lead to some intense fighting, but it seems like our cluster munitions have mad a huge difference in the last couple of weeks. Will the increased production across Europe and America be able to supply them with the artillery they need to lay seige on the area without actually holding it?

#71346
7 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

VeneZUELA please..... And their shit is not flying anymore due to sanctions. 

Train their pilots and maintenance people asap. In the meantime work with allies to get them what they know and are ready to use now. Then backfill everyone with Falcons or  F-35's. Shit there should be F-15's patrolling the Russian Border 24/7.  

Here’s a dumbed down but fun read on a former MIG pilot.

https://www.newsweek.com/fighter-jets-pilot-ukraine-poland-f16s-mig29-1804551

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#71347
1 hour ago, Handcruser said:


I’m not sure why people don’t understand this.

 

1 hour ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

I just told you. Lol. 

5a74b23b-7bc1-439f-811a-f27c529ee61b_tex

628bdc54-7f04-472d-99c8-101d8d6c3c0d_tex

 

#71348
19 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Seems like ATACMS would be pretty useful in that scenario.

ATACMS would primarily be used to hit static strategic objectives like supply points. Essentially the same sort of targets Ukraine currently services with GMLRs and at greater distances with Storm Shadow/SCALP. It isn't really the type of weapon you'd use to hit front line targets. Too expensive, too little quantity, and not particularly effective for that role. 

#71349
42 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

VeneZUELA please..... And their shit is not flying anymore due to sanctions. 

Train their pilots and maintenance people asap. In the meantime work with allies to get them what they know and are ready to use now. Then backfill everyone with Falcons or  F-35's. Shit there should be F-15's patrolling the Russian Border 24/7.  

You do realize we sell these to them, right?  Those countries that donate and then we propose to give them new shit have to agree to pay for said new shit.  Europe hasn't exactly been on it in terms of military spending for a while now, and while they have picked it up a bit, joint strike fighters are a tad on the pricey side.  

Also, to whomever included Taiwan on a list of places where equipment could be donated from, please stop doing that.  

#71350
1 hour ago, Schulz2.0 said:
BREAKING:Ukrainian drones are attacking Moscow

 

 

Through the best SAM systems in the world?

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