Jump to content
View in the app

A better way to browse. Learn more.

Surly Horns

A full-screen app on your home screen with push notifications, badges and more.

To install this app on iOS and iPadOS
  1. Tap the Share icon in Safari
  2. Scroll the menu and tap Add to Home Screen.
  3. Tap Add in the top-right corner.
To install this app on Android
  1. Tap the 3-dot menu (⋮) in the top-right corner of the browser.
  2. Tap Add to Home screen or Install app.
  3. Confirm by tapping Install.
Football ... Basketball ... Baseball ... Other Sports ... Futbol ... 🤫995🤫 ... Gambling ... Movies & TV ... Music ... Hobbies ... Lulz ... Food & Travel ... Daily Texan ... Business & Markets ... Cloak Room ... Help ... For Sale ... Board Discussion ... Advertise... Tailgate Donations

Featured Replies

#90351
19 minutes ago, KYHorn said:

Looking for the optimistic side...

 

Not Bad GIF by Bud Light

I'll take this as well - recent numbers

Details: The total combat losses of the Russian forces between 24 February 2022 and 16 September 2025 are estimated to be as follows [figures in parentheses represent the latest losses – ed.]:

  • approximately 1,096,430 (+910) military personnel
  • 11,184 (+0) tanks
  • 23,274 (+5) armoured combat vehicles
  • 32,810 (+26) artillery systems
  • 1,490 (+2) multiple-launch rocket systems
  • 1,217 (+0) air defence systems
  • 422 (+0) fixed-wing aircraft
  • 341 (+0) helicopters
  • 59,719 (+310) operational-tactical UAVs
  • 3,718 (+0) cruise missiles
  • 28 (+0) ships/boats
  • 1 (+0) submarine
  • 61,770 (+72) vehicles and fuel tankers
  • 3,965 (+0) special vehicles and other equipment.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2025/09/16/7531062/

The flood of identified Russian war dead continues on the Poteru database.

4,106 1st-17th September. About 240/day... Higher than any complete month. And many more will not have public obituaries.

This is very likely due to changes in Russian reporting, lots of old deaths being reported now.

136,845 identified by name. There will be some mistakes, but lots and lots not publicly identified. I think it's almost impossible for true Russian deaths to be below 200k by now. Wouldn't surprise me if it's 250k.

This doesn't include force mobilised Ukrainians or other non-Russians.

The flood of identified Russian war dead continues on the Poteru database. 4,106 1st-17th September. About 240/day... Higher than any complete month. And many more will not have public obituaries. This is very likely due to changes in Russian reporting, lots of old deaths being reported now.

  • Replies 92.9k
  • Views 7.1m
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Most Popular Posts

  • AUS-97HORN
    AUS-97HORN

    For the love of Christ woman,  stop posting the same fucking thing every 20 mins just to make your neurotic self feel better.     Bring something useful to the thread other than your inane babbli

  • Im_smarter_then_you
    Im_smarter_then_you

  • InkaUtexas
    InkaUtexas

    I volunteered today. Log/Admin role to replace people for 30-60 days. The operation is in the west, or should the Orcs win will be pulled back behind the NATO wall. Either way the humanitarian effort

Posted Images

#90352
This seems absurdly obvious. To deter Russia, you must do something they don't want in response to their provocations. If every incursion was met with large new packages to Ukraine, they would stop. And it would be far cheaper than the apparent European tactic of begging Russia to carry on. [contains quote post or other embedded content]

 

  • Popular Post
#90353
On 9/13/2025 at 9:24 AM, Parliament said:

Long past time Europe divests from Russian energy.  They layed down with the Devil and need to just deal with the expense of moving to more expensive energy.  Suck it up.

https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/eu-considers-faster-russian-oil-gas-exit-after-us-pressure-2025-09-10/

  Reveal hidden contents

STRASBOURG, Sept 10 (Reuters) - The European Union is considering a faster phase-out of Russian fossil fuels as part of new sanctions against Moscow, European Commission chief Ursula von der Leyen said on Wednesday after U.S. pressure on Europe to stop buying Russian oil.
A ban on seaborne Russian crude oil has cut the EU's Russian oil imports by 90%, but Hungary and Slovakia still import via a pipeline and Europe is expected to purchase about 13% of its gas from Russia this year, though that is down from 45% before Russia's 2022 invasion of Ukraine, EU data shows.

EU officials are in Washington to discuss coordination on further Russia sanctions to cut off funding for its war in Ukraine. However, internal divisions and the need for global support raise questions over how effective such steps will be.

 

Also long past time we take all of Russia's trapped foreign assets and turn them into weapons to kill Russians with.  Every dollar.

#90354
46 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

136,845 identified by name. There will be some mistakes, but lots and lots not publicly identified. I think it's almost impossible for true Russian deaths to be below 200k by now. Wouldn't surprise me if it's 250k.

If a million casualties, then 200,000 - 250,000 dead seems right, given that their level of battlefield medical care is third world.

  • Popular Post
#90357

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2025/09/16/russia-brainwashing-camps-ukrainian-kids/86178414007/

Quote

 Russia is holding tens of thousands of kidnapped Ukrainian children in a sprawling, "potentially unprecedented" network of more than 200 militarization and "brainwashing" camps, according to a Sept. 16 report from a group of war crime investigators.

"What we’re seeing is an industrialized network of re-education, aka brainwashing to turn Ukrainian children into Russians and, in some cases, to turn certain Ukrainian children into soldiers," said Nathaniel Raymond, executive director of the Yale School of Public Health Humanitarian Research Lab, the group behind the report.

Russia's forcible transfer and reeducation of Ukrainian children, and in some cases militarization of them, is occurring at a much larger scale than was previously known, the lab's investigators found. They tracked the children to 210 sites, including summer camps, sanatoriums and military bases inside of Russia and occupied Ukrainian territories.

 

#90358
12 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:
This seems absurdly obvious. To deter Russia, you must do something they don't want in response to their provocations. If every incursion was met with large new packages to Ukraine, they would stop. And it would be far cheaper than the apparent European tactic of begging Russia to carry on. [contains quote post or other embedded content]

 

Yeah it’s obvious that Russia’s hope with the desperate drones into Poland and Romania was to keep more equipment from getting to Ukraine. Do the opposite. 

Edited by B00M

  • Popular Post
#90359
🔥 AFU struck ELOU-AVT-4 unit at Gazprom Neftokhim Salavat, - CyberBoroshno The plant carries out a full cycle of processing hydrocarbon raw materials and produces more than 150 types of products, including gasoline, diesel fuel, fuel oil, bitumen, polyethylene, styrene, ammonia, urea, etc.

 

Salavat 🤩🔥🔥🔥

Another refinery hit.

#90360
19 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

if the price of everything keeps going up, and there are already shortages of some things, it makes sense to take all your money out and buy as many things as humanly possible while they are still available and at a lower price point.

Watching Constantine’s Wednesday economic report, he reminded me of of a different aspect of people taking all their money out.  When the Russian people know they are about to be fucked by the government, they try to take out as many rubles as possible, and buy euros and American dollars. They know there is a real possibility that rubles will be massively devalued, and you don’t want to be left with rubles in the bank.    One, they might create some rule that just takes your money or limits the amount of money you can withdraw.  Second, the bank might fail, or if not fail, may simply suspend banking until such time as the central bank gives it more money.  Either way the customer has no access to the rubles.    

Constantine was contacted by cold call salespeople who thought he still lived in Russia - both a Lada salesman and a real estate agent in Moscow who were desperate to make a sale, offering up to 50% discount on the Lada, and a condo with payments not due until late 2026, with assistance reducing the interest rate of the mortgage if he chose to borrow.  One admitted that everyone was going bankrupt and out of business and nobody was buying anything - so now was the time to get the great discounts.   

TL;DR - The great Special Operation  enshittening is finally affecting every aspect of Russian economic life

Edited by Gatorubet

#90361
22 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

if the price of everything keeps going up, and there are already shortages of some things, it makes sense to take all your money out and buy as many things as humanly possible while they are still available and at a lower price point.  I assume they would focus on food, as having money to buy food - but no food available - is worse than food being available and not having money.  People can borrow money from friends or family, or beg, or trade work for food, or sex for food, or steal food, but there is not a damn thing you can do when there is no food but starve.

 

 

19 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

And any money locked away in the bank is at risk of the government fucking with it, including limiting purchases electronically (food rationing, etc.).

Cash/rubles in hand can get you stuff on the black market, from the farmer down the road, etc.

These are both true.

However, probably the largest reason for the banking deficit has more to do with them not having money to deposit. X customer withdraws $100, but if there is no customer Y to deposit money, you create negative balance.

I think this could be a combination of a Depression era bank run combined with with the Consumer Debt recession of 2007. 

I'm okay with that.

#90362
5 minutes ago, Jameslaw121 said:

 

These are both true.

However, probably the largest reason for the banking deficit has more to do with them not having money to deposit. X customer withdraws $100, but if there is no customer Y to deposit money, you create negative balance.

I think this could be a combination of a Depression era bank run combined with with the Consumer Debt recession of 2007. 

IMG_3960.jpeg.68af2fd7556d91c361f2e8dca52fcf8f.jpeg

#90363
3 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

Watching Constantine’s Wednesday economic report, he reminded me of of a different aspect of people taking all their money out.  When the Russian people know they are about to be fucked by the government, they try to take out as many rubles as possible, and buy euros and American dollars. They know there is a real possibility that rubles will be massively devalued, and you don’t want to be left with rubles in the bank.    One, they might create some rule that just takes your money or limits the amount of money you can withdraw.  Second, the bank might fail, or if not fail, may simply suspend banking until such time as the central bank gives it more money.  Either way the customer has no access to the rubles.    

Constantine was contacted by cold call salespeople who thought he still lived in Russia - both a Lada salesman and a real estate agent in Moscow who were desperate to make a sale, offering up to 50% discount on the Lada, and a condo with payments not due until late 2026, with assistance reducing the interest rate of the mortgage if he chose to borrow.  One admitted that everyone was going bankrupt and out of business and nobody was buying anything - so now was the time to get the great discounts.   

TL;DR - The great Special Operation  enshittening is finally affecting every aspect of Russian economic life

This reply was better than mine.

Can you put the link for the Constatine Videos? I'm sure its somewhere on this thread but I'm pretty lazy.

#90364
3 minutes ago, Jameslaw121 said:

This reply was better than mine.

Can you put the link for the Constatine Videos? I'm sure its somewhere on this thread but I'm pretty lazy.

 

 

#90365
3 hours ago, Jameslaw121 said:

I think this could be a combination of a Depression era bank run combined with with the Consumer Debt recession of 2007. 

I'm okay with that.

And I know analysts were predicting this for a while, going back to when sanctions started being seriously talked about, when Western companies had to cut ties, etc., and it's certainly taken long enough, but I'm glad it looks like there is evidence for it finally happening.

#90367
On 9/16/2025 at 3:39 PM, PTINS said:

 

image.png.b761a8b98f4253c8ab84667871a7bae9.png

Hitting any Russian Refinery. anywhere is good. just for the optics.

But not all attacks are equal.

The new Saratov Refinery attack appears to be proximate to some manifolds and some above ground piping. Nothing that seems to be critical and out of commission for very long period. A google screen shot shows the fire location (red polygon) relative to the refinery footprint.

IMO, hitting anything in the yellow polygons was probably a much better target than what they hit.

Recently, Ukraine has targeted, and hit, specific process towers. Those are among the highest value targets in Russia, because they reduce fuel production, reduce export revenue, and are very difficult to replace, given sanctions and difficulties Russia will have in getting replacement parts, controls and instrumentation.  Knocking out the main process towers means a 40% reduction in total refining capacity for ~ 6 months, or longer.

Seeing Ukraine specify vessel names and numbers, and hitting them, makes my heart go pitter patter.

Screenshot2025-09-16at2_26_19PM.png.bebdb4eb08c8a836cf35e4f81bda7799.png

 

 

12 hours ago, Schulz2.0 said:
🔥 AFU struck ELOU-AVT-4 unit at Gazprom Neftokhim Salavat, - CyberBoroshno The plant carries out a full cycle of processing hydrocarbon raw materials and produces more than 150 types of products, including gasoline, diesel fuel, fuel oil, bitumen, polyethylene, styrene, ammonia, urea, etc.

 

Salavat 🤩🔥🔥🔥

Another refinery hit.

image.png.6694bae6a9fb649859fa398e5c4a6771.png 

"According to preliminary information, the drones hit the ELOU-AVT-4 unit - the heart of the plant. It first cleans oil from water and salts, and then converts it into gasoline, diesel, kerosene, and fuel oil. A strong fire and a black column of smoke are observed on the plant's territory," the source said.

The fact of damage to the refinery was also confirmed by representatives of the Bashkortostan authorities.

That is the way to do it.  A++

(Sorry, A+. I've been reading the recruiting pages too much)

A surgical strike at the main process tower that removes the impurities and separates the crude oil into the various transportation fuels. The entire vertical column is enveloped in flames, with a single column of thick black smoke (fuel burning >> oxygen supply) rising high into the sky. The longer it burns, the hotter the oil gets, the faster it vaporizes, the easier it burns, the bigger the fire and the hotter it gets. Too hot of a fire to put out with water, you have to remove the fuel source, which means shutting off valves. The instrumentation and automated control systems, if they had any to begin with, and if they survived the initial explosion, probably melted within the first few minutes, meaning the valves would have to be closed manually. 

"disco inferno
(Burn, baby, burn) burn that mother down
(Burn, baby, burn) disco inferno, yeah
(Burn, baby, burn) burn that mother down (burnin'!)
"

#90368
🇺🇸🇵🇱 The US has approved the sale of 2,506 Javelin missiles and 253 launchers to Poland for $780 million. Pentagon assesses that the sale will enhance Poland's ability to counter ground threats, enhance interoperability with NATO forces, maintain military balance in the region.

 

👀❗️ Russian soldiers trying to break into Kupyansk were flooded in a gas pipeline, — OK "North" 🌊 The gas pipeline they were trying to pass through turned out to be damaged and flooded.

 

#90369

ruzzia getting more aggressive

❗️Three Russian MiG-31 figther jets reportedly flew into Estonia's air space today - Politico, citing sources. According to reports, they crossed about 5 nautical miles inside Estonia towards Tallinn and spent about 12 minutes in NATO airspace.

 

#90370

Escalate to deescalate.

Russia not happy with new sanctions.

Won’t work.

Poor Russia.

  • Popular Post
#90371
11 minutes ago, Chopper said:

ruzzia getting more aggressive

❗️Three Russian MiG-31 figther jets reportedly flew into Estonia's air space today - Politico, citing sources. According to reports, they crossed about 5 nautical miles inside Estonia towards Tallinn and spent about 12 minutes in NATO airspace.

 

A reminder to Estonia, which HATES Russia: every MIG you shoot down is one that can't be used in combat in Ukraine.

  • Popular Post
#90372
12 minutes ago, Chopper said:

ruzzia getting more aggressive

❗️Three Russian MiG-31 figther jets reportedly flew into Estonia's air space today - Politico, citing sources. According to reports, they crossed about 5 nautical miles inside Estonia towards Tallinn and spent about 12 minutes in NATO airspace.

 

We need to take a page from Turkey's book.  They live in a rough neighborhood.  They pushed back on Russia, and Russia didn't do shit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Russian_Sukhoi_Su-24_shootdown

#90374

Ukraine-Russia war latest: Poland scrambles jets after Moscow launches huge aerial assault on Ukraine

 

It came as three Russian fighter jets entered Estonian airspace last night, a move described by the country’s foreign ministry as ‘unprecedentedly brazen’

Stuti Mishra,Alex Croft
Saturday 20 September 2025 15:57 BST

From reproductive rights to climate change to Big Tech, The Independent is on the ground when the story is developing. Whether it's investigating the financials of Elon Musk's pro-Trump PAC or producing our latest documentary, 'The A Word', which shines a light on the American women fighting for reproductive rights, we know how important it is to parse out the facts from the messaging.

At such a critical moment in US history, we need reporters on the ground. Your donation allows us to keep sending journalists to speak to both sides of the story.

The Independent is trusted by Americans across the entire political spectrum. And unlike many other quality news outlets, we choose not to lock Americans out of our reporting and analysis with paywalls. We believe quality journalism should be available to everyone, paid for by those who can afford it.

Your support makes all the difference.
 

Polish fighter jets were scrambled overnight to protect the Nato-member country’s airspace during a major Russian air attack across Ukraine.

Polish aircraft and air defences were at the “highest state of readiness," the operational command said on X, as more than 600 drones and missiles were fired at Ukraine overnight in an air attack which killed at least three and injured dozens.

 

European countries are on high alert following a string of Russian incursions into Nato territory, as Moscow’s forces continue to probe and provoke the alliance’s defences.

An incursion of three fighter jets into Estonian airspace last night was dismissed by Moscow as a “scheduled” flight carried out in “strict accordance” with airspace rules.

Three Russian MiG-31 fighter jets entered Estonian territory on Friday night where they remained without permission for 12 minutes, the Estonian foreign ministry said.

US president Donald Trump has warned of “big trouble” as he grows increasingly dismayed by Russia’s provocations, including repeated drone and fighter jet incursions intoneighbouring countries including Poland and Romania.

 

"I don't love it. I don't like when that happens. Could be big trouble,” he told reporters, adding that he was yet to be fully briefed on the situation.

Nato will meet in Estonia early next week to discuss the Russian incursion.

 
28 minutes ago

More on Russia's overnight air attack

We’re getting more detail through on Russia’s huge overnight air attack on Ukraine overnight.

At least 30 people were wounded in the attack in Ukraine's central Dnipropetrovsk region, local governor Serhii Lysak said. Several high-rise buildings and homes were damaged in the eastern city of Dnipro.

In the Kyiv region, local authorities said there were strikes in the areas of Bucha, Boryspil and Obukhiv. A home and cars were damaged. In the western region of Lviv, Gov. Maxim Kozytsky said two cruise missiles were shot down.

Russia launched 619 drones and missiles, Ukraine's Air Force said this morning, including 579 drones, eight ballistic missiles and 32 cruise missiles were detected. Ukrainian forces shot down and neutralized 552 drones, two ballistic missiles and 29 cruise missiles.

"During the air strike, tactical aviation, in particular F-16 fighters, effectively worked on the enemy's cruise missiles. Western weapons once again prove their effectiveness on the battlefield," the Air Force said in a statement.

Alex Croft20 September 2025 15:57
1 hour ago

Polish and allied aircraft scrambled again overnight

Poland's Operational Command on Saturday said Polish and allied aircraft were deployed again overnight, due to Russian long-range airstrikes in neighboring Ukraine.

"Polish and allied aircraft are operating in our airspace, while ground-based air defence and radar reconnaissance systems have been brought to the highest state of readiness," the operational command said in a post on X.

At 5:40am local time (4:40am UK time), nearly all of Ukraine was under air raid alerts following Ukrainian Air Force warnings of Russian missile and drone attacks.

Shortly after 5am, Polish and allied air forces ended the operation as airstrikes by the Russian Federation against Ukraine were ceased, the Polish command said, adding that the actions were "preventative and aimed at securing airspace in areas adjacent to the threatened area".

In a post on X later, the operational command described the operation as "preventive," and "aimed at securing the airspace in areas adjacent to the threatened zone."

Polish jets have been deployed repeatedly in recent months to patrol the country's airspace in connection with Russian attacks on Ukraine.

Last week, fellow Nato member Romania said it deployed two F-16 jets to intercept a drone that briefly entered its airspace.

#90378
53 minutes ago, elfenix said:

12:01 -first test successful

12:02 -first hot pocket heated

Middle is still frozen

#90379
Russian Telegram channels report drone attacks on oil refineries in Saratov and Novokuibyshevsk, Samara region of Russia.

 

#90380
Quote

On the night of September 20, units of the Ukrainian Defense Forces attacked oil refineries in Saratov and Samara regions and a line production and dispatch station.

According to the military, units of the Armed Forces struck the Saratov Oil Refinery in Saratov. It accounts for 2.54% of Russia's total oil refining.

Explosions and a large-scale fire have been confirmed there. The final results of the damage are being clarified.

The Unmanned Systems Forces also struck the Novokuibyshevsk oil refinery in Samara region. It processes over 8.8 million tons of oil per year.

Explosions and fires were also reported there. Details are being clarified.

In addition, units of the Special Operations Forces hit the main transport infrastructure facility – the Samara line production and dispatch station.

This is a production station where high- and low-sulfur crude oil from different fields is blended to form the Urals export grade (up to 50% of Russia's total exports).

The General Staff emphasizes that all these facilities are involved in the supply of the Russian armed forces.

 

This is the fourth time they’ve hit the one in Samara. i’m glad they also took out the main rail transport infrastructure as well.  

 

  • Popular Post
#90382
Trump defames Zelenskyy: "He's always looking to purchase missiles. Listen, when you start a war, you gotta know you can win a war. You don't start a war against somebody that's 20 times your size and then hope that people give you some missiles.pic.twitter.com/jI2eEO4Jvk

 

 

#90384
10 hours ago, Captainant said:
Trump defames Zelenskyy: "He's always looking to purchase missiles. Listen, when you start a war, you gotta know you can win a war. You don't start a war against somebody that's 20 times your size and then hope that people give you some missiles.pic.twitter.com/jI2eEO4Jvk

 

 

If Ukraine was buying the missiles from this /\ clown there would not be enough room on Earth to stack them all up.

#90385
3 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:


This fucking guy.

He probably thinks Kuwait started the war with Iraq. Or Poland and a dozen other countries started it with Germany in WWII.  Because somebody around him that's pro-Russian told him that Ukraine started it.

#90386
16 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

This is the fourth time they’ve hit the one in Samara. i’m glad they also took out the main rail transport infrastructure as well.  

@PTINS I'm insanely curious what it looks like if Ukraine continues to pound Russian oil & gas infrastructure. There has to be a tipping point where Russia as a nation-state ceases to function in being able to continue hitting Ukraine on the ground. They can squeeze the shit out of the Russian civilian population, and many will take it, but businesses will start closing shop, and things like food distribution will be impacted.

It's telling that Russia is still hitting civilian targets  (apartments, schools, etc.) rather than trying to hit Ukraine's infrastructure that supports the missile/drone attack son Russia.

#90387
14 hours ago, Captainant said:
Trump defames Zelenskyy: "He's always looking to purchase missiles. Listen, when you start a war, you gotta know you can win a war. You don't start a war against somebody that's 20 times your size and then hope that people give you some missiles.pic.twitter.com/jI2eEO4Jvk

 

 

Again.  These are HIGH END AMERICAN MANUFACTURING JOBS.  Our shit is the absolute best.  Price is irrelevant when they come in to buy Patriots.  I fail to see the problem here.

#90388
Again.  These are HIGH END AMERICAN MANUFACTURING JOBS.  Our shit is the absolute best.  Price is irrelevant when they come in to buy Patriots.  I fail to see the problem here.

I think what you have to ask yourself when pondering such a question is the same tfg has to ask himself - How does this help Russia?
#90389
2 hours ago, Parliament said:

Again.  These are HIGH END AMERICAN MANUFACTURING JOBS.  Our shit is the absolute best.  Price is irrelevant when they come in to buy Patriots.  I fail to see the problem here.

2 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

I think what you have to ask yourself when pondering such a question is the same tfg has to ask himself - How does this help Russia?

I wonder about his cognitive abilities a lot. The first invasion happened while Obama was in office - he has the perfect excuse to bitch about Obama. Zelensky is Jewish, Trump's son-in-law and grandkids are Jewish. He could talk about how much he loves the Jewish people and Israel. These are low-hanging fruit. Instead he passes up the opportunity to blame Obama and he rips the Jewish guy.

#90391
4 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I wonder about his cognitive abilities a lot. The first invasion happened while Obama was in office - he has the perfect excuse to bitch about Obama. Zelensky is Jewish, Trump's son-in-law and grandkids are Jewish. He could talk about how much he loves the Jewish people and Israel. These are low-hanging fruit. Instead he passes up the opportunity to blame Obama and he rips the Jewish guy.

I think he’s been unhinged for years.

#90392
On 9/20/2025 at 10:28 AM, Bevo said:

Ukraine-Russia war latest: Poland scrambles jets after Moscow launches huge aerial assault on Ukraine

 

It came as three Russian fighter jets entered Estonian airspace last night, a move described by the country’s foreign ministry as ‘unprecedentedly brazen’

Stuti Mishra,Alex Croft
Saturday 20 September 2025 15:57 BST

From reproductive rights to climate change to Big Tech, The Independent is on the ground when the story is developing. Whether it's investigating the financials of Elon Musk's pro-Trump PAC or producing our latest documentary, 'The A Word', which shines a light on the American women fighting for reproductive rights, we know how important it is to parse out the facts from the messaging.

At such a critical moment in US history, we need reporters on the ground. Your donation allows us to keep sending journalists to speak to both sides of the story.

The Independent is trusted by Americans across the entire political spectrum. And unlike many other quality news outlets, we choose not to lock Americans out of our reporting and analysis with paywalls. We believe quality journalism should be available to everyone, paid for by those who can afford it.

Your support makes all the difference.
 

Polish fighter jets were scrambled overnight to protect the Nato-member country’s airspace during a major Russian air attack across Ukraine.

Polish aircraft and air defences were at the “highest state of readiness," the operational command said on X, as more than 600 drones and missiles were fired at Ukraine overnight in an air attack which killed at least three and injured dozens.

 

European countries are on high alert following a string of Russian incursions into Nato territory, as Moscow’s forces continue to probe and provoke the alliance’s defences.

An incursion of three fighter jets into Estonian airspace last night was dismissed by Moscow as a “scheduled” flight carried out in “strict accordance” with airspace rules.

Three Russian MiG-31 fighter jets entered Estonian territory on Friday night where they remained without permission for 12 minutes, the Estonian foreign ministry said.

US president Donald Trump has warned of “big trouble” as he grows increasingly dismayed by Russia’s provocations, including repeated drone and fighter jet incursions intoneighbouring countries including Poland and Romania.

 

"I don't love it. I don't like when that happens. Could be big trouble,” he told reporters, adding that he was yet to be fully briefed on the situation.

Nato will meet in Estonia early next week to discuss the Russian incursion.

 
28 minutes ago

More on Russia's overnight air attack

We’re getting more detail through on Russia’s huge overnight air attack on Ukraine overnight.

At least 30 people were wounded in the attack in Ukraine's central Dnipropetrovsk region, local governor Serhii Lysak said. Several high-rise buildings and homes were damaged in the eastern city of Dnipro.

In the Kyiv region, local authorities said there were strikes in the areas of Bucha, Boryspil and Obukhiv. A home and cars were damaged. In the western region of Lviv, Gov. Maxim Kozytsky said two cruise missiles were shot down.

Russia launched 619 drones and missiles, Ukraine's Air Force said this morning, including 579 drones, eight ballistic missiles and 32 cruise missiles were detected. Ukrainian forces shot down and neutralized 552 drones, two ballistic missiles and 29 cruise missiles.

"During the air strike, tactical aviation, in particular F-16 fighters, effectively worked on the enemy's cruise missiles. Western weapons once again prove their effectiveness on the battlefield," the Air Force said in a statement.

Alex Croft20 September 2025 15:57
1 hour ago

Polish and allied aircraft scrambled again overnight

Poland's Operational Command on Saturday said Polish and allied aircraft were deployed again overnight, due to Russian long-range airstrikes in neighboring Ukraine.

"Polish and allied aircraft are operating in our airspace, while ground-based air defence and radar reconnaissance systems have been brought to the highest state of readiness," the operational command said in a post on X.

At 5:40am local time (4:40am UK time), nearly all of Ukraine was under air raid alerts following Ukrainian Air Force warnings of Russian missile and drone attacks.

Shortly after 5am, Polish and allied air forces ended the operation as airstrikes by the Russian Federation against Ukraine were ceased, the Polish command said, adding that the actions were "preventative and aimed at securing airspace in areas adjacent to the threatened area".

In a post on X later, the operational command described the operation as "preventive," and "aimed at securing the airspace in areas adjacent to the threatened zone."

Polish jets have been deployed repeatedly in recent months to patrol the country's airspace in connection with Russian attacks on Ukraine.

Last week, fellow Nato member Romania said it deployed two F-16 jets to intercept a drone that briefly entered its airspace.

So glad I am not still in Poland any more. They probably did some all hands on deck 24 hours in the COIC bullshit all leave cancelled nonsense. I didn't enjoy being the victim of the constant vigilance, to be honest, even though I understand at a theoretical level the necessity.

Edited by Thetexashammer

#90393

H I Sutton - Covert Shores

Ukrainian UUV manufacturer Toloka has unveiled the TLK-1000 XLUUV at the Brave1 Defense Tech Valley 2025 exhibition in Lviv. As expected, the long anticipated craft is much larger than the TLK-150 model previously shown.

According to reports, the TLK-1000 has a variable length of between 4–12 meters, a range of up to 2,000 km (1,080 nautical miles), and a payload of up to 5,000 kg.

-------

Pictures at link.  2,000 km seems like a decent range, and 5,000 kg payload seems like it could do some damage.

#90395

 

Drones struck a resort complex in occupied Crimea where "very important guests" were allegedly staying. Three people died

 

Paratroopers of Ukraine’s 95th Brigade shot down a Russian Forpost UAV. The drone, worth around $7 million, can fly up to 7 km high with a 250 km range. It was carrying two guided KAB-20S bombs when destroyed.

 

Edited by KYHorn

#90397
21 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

@PTINS I'm insanely curious what it looks like if Ukraine continues to pound Russian oil & gas infrastructure. There has to be a tipping point where Russia as a nation-state ceases to function in being able to continue hitting Ukraine on the ground. They can squeeze the shit out of the Russian civilian population, and many will take it, but businesses will start closing shop, and things like food distribution will be impacted.

FIFY

Pure speculation on my part.

It is like a big machine with lots of moving parts that needs constant attention, along with periodic predictive and preventative maintenance. When you start postponing, delaying and canceling the maintenance, the machine gradually starts slowing down, until it seizes up, and stops. Battle of the Bulge stuff.

The more infrastructure Ukraine damages, the more critical the remaining infrastructure becomes. Refining is not something you can just throw more people at. I don't think those Russian refineries are "coming back" until the sanctions are lifted. You cannot build world class OIL & GAS facilities during a war. If the local people can't get gasoline and diesel, it won't be long until the trains can't get it, and they stop moving, which is absolutely critical in Russia. If they can't move what little they make, then what? No money, no jobs, no food, no heat and no friends.  

Extreme Theory? What is the worst that could happen? When Russia is facing the same existential crisis they forced upon Ukraine, then what? 

That is a dark hole to wonder down.

TLDR

Ukraine has targeted most of Russia's refineries to some degree, with the exception of those in far eastern Russian. To what degree they were damaged? No idea. 

Ukraines more recent attacks, where they have targeted specific process towers, tells me they are not just lobbing grenades any more, but more likely, they have access to the refineries Process Flow Diagrams and plot plans, that detail the critical process towers and equipment, and the specific locations of the equipment. Ukraine has been hitting moving targets at will, hitting a static refinery process tower that has a John Hancock like infrared signature, is easier than shooting fish in a barrel.

Both Biden & Trump, and most of the EU, have had a heavy thumb on Ukraines targeting of certain Russian O&G facilities and operations, those mostly likely to impact gasoline and diesel prices at home.

After 3 years of Russian fuckery, Ukraine has taken the gloves off. Oil prices have decreased from $100+ BBL to $60, because so much "sanctioned" Russian oil is still coming into the market. This reinforces the obvious; blowing shit up works a lot better than repeated hollow diplomatic threats.

Refineries are more critical as they make what is needed domestically, they are also well defined choke points on crude oil production. They are literally are the fuel that drives the domestic economy, with the excess crude feeding the export market. 

Some of the internet threads and posts have alluded to a "product ring" around Moscow, inferring there is a series of product pipelines surrounding the Moscow region, with access to multiple refineries feeding it from different directions.   As long as Moscow is happy, nobody gives a shit.

More recently Ukraine has targeted everything; refining, product pipelines, pump stations and domestic oil depots (refined products), and export terminals for both products and crude exports.  The cumulative effect of all of that will be more critical as time passes.

Replacing the refinery process towers takes a long time. The towers themselves are custom, fit for purpose, long delivery time items. They are big, ~10-15 ft in diameter, 100+ ft tall, with a special metallurgy suitable for operating at high temperatures and pressures, in a very corrosive, and toxic environment.  Cook up and smelt all the right ingredients into thick steel plates, roll the plates into cylinders, weld all the cylinders together, cut multiple openings into the cylinders, weld custom flanges and fittings into the holes, heat treat and stress relieve the finished product, load it on a special rail car and move it (without anybody finding out), erect a big ass crane, stand it up and bolt it down.  Then connect all the receipt and delivery piping to the myriad of pumps, compressors, coolers, condensers, heaters, and heat exchangers, and all the valves and instrumentation and wires and cables, all of which are also special ordered equipment. And then paint it, weatherize it for winter (Real winter, not Texas winter), and insulate everything. The probability that the skilled labor required to do all these things is sitting around waiting for something to do is about 0.0%; they are probably pushing up sunflowers in Ukraine.

Bottom line, reduced Russian refining is going to impact Russia immediately, and for a long time.  Not just the war effort, but much more.

The one thing Russia had going for it was the world needed Russia's oil production. Oil prices are down to half of what they were a few years ago. That doesn't mean we don't need Russia's oil; we just don't need it right now. It is almost funny to see Trump trying to strong arm China & India into stop buying Russian oil. Where are they supposed to get it from? 

 

#90398
6 hours ago, PTINS said:

Some of the internet threads and posts have alluded to a "product ring" around Moscow, inferring there is a series of product pipelines surrounding the Moscow region, with access to multiple refineries feeding it from different directions.   As long as Moscow is happy, nobody gives a shit.

I believe Moscow is “the Capital”…. of Russia.

  • Popular Post
#90399

 

Polish UN Ambassador talks more about other Russian incursions, but also touches on Ukraine here.  "Your Empire will not be rebuilt."

 

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...
Football ... Basketball ... Baseball ... Other Sports ... Futbol ... 🤫995🤫 ... Gambling ... Movies & TV ... Music ... Hobbies ... Lulz ... Food & Travel ... Daily Texan ... Business & Markets ... Cloak Room ... Help ... For Sale ... Board Discussion ... Advertise... Tailgate Donations

Configure browser push notifications

Chrome (Android)
  1. Tap the lock icon next to the address bar.
  2. Tap Permissions → Notifications.
  3. Adjust your preference.
Chrome (Desktop)
  1. Click the padlock icon in the address bar.
  2. Select Site settings.
  3. Find Notifications and adjust your preference.