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5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Okay....idea....help fund Ukrainian defense by letting "tourists" pay to go up on such flights.

How many of y'all here would pay $5k to go up on a "use a shotgun to shoot down Russian drones from an open cockpit aircraft" ride?  SIGN. ME. UP.  Get a good semi-auto shotgun with a large magazine, and let 'er rip.  Sure, make us go through some training, show some actual shooting skill -- I mean, these missions actually do matter.

Ukraine gets cash, "volunteers" fighting for it, and Russian drowns blasted.  Win-win-win.

Ideally in a Sopwith Camel and a Bullpup with 15 round drums. To make it really authentic to WWI, no parachutes, oh, and the Russians have to circle crash sites and drop wreathes. They have to use their own wreath fund, of course.

CHIEF

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  • AUS-97HORN
    AUS-97HORN

    For the love of Christ woman,  stop posting the same fucking thing every 20 mins just to make your neurotic self feel better.     Bring something useful to the thread other than your inane babbli

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  • InkaUtexas
    InkaUtexas

    I volunteered today. Log/Admin role to replace people for 30-60 days. The operation is in the west, or should the Orcs win will be pulled back behind the NATO wall. Either way the humanitarian effort

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Just now, CHIEF said:

Ideally in a Sopwith Camel and a Bullpup with 15 round drums. To make it really authentic to WWI, no parachutes, oh, and the Russians have to circle crash sites and drop wreathes. They have to use their own wreath fund, of course.

CHIEF

Actually, you need something with some speed (so the AgTractors may not be ideally suited).  Probably needs to be capable of 300 mph or so.  But FFS and seriously, how much goddamn fun would this be?

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If Ukraine starts really eating into their fuel supplies as it looks like they are doing, and then launches an offensive somewhere or cuts off large units, would be interesting to see how Russia could respond.

 

26 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Supposedly drones are back up.

And France wants in on the action. A lot of people still make jokes about WWII France, not realizing that since then, France has had no problem getting in on plenty of wars.

 

Historically, France has been badass on the battle fields. We would have never won our war for independence without the support of France. They just so happened that to have ran into an absolute juggernaut in WW2 and their image has yet to recover since. 

16 minutes ago, Vertuzzi said:

Historically, France has been badass on the battle fields. We would have never won our war for independence without the support of France. They just so happened that to have ran into an absolute juggernaut in WW2 and their image has yet to recover since. 

yes.... 

and no

France had the LARGEST Army (by far)  in the world in 1940. They had the most tanks, they were even more mobilized than Germany.  and they got out-manuevered, out-strategized, and had worse tactics.

then when they got worked over, and had to retreat past Paris, they still had an army that was about the same size as the attacking Germans, and they would have been playing defense.... which would have put a serious fucking crimp on Germany taking over the whole country.

instead they rolled over, played dead, and put their absolute Hero of WW1 in charge of the downfall and collaberation.

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, AUS-97HORN said:

yes.... 

and no

France had the LARGEST Army (by far)  in the world in 1940. They had the most tanks, they were even more mobilized than Germany.  and they got out-manuevered, out-strategized, and had worse tactics.

then when they got worked over, and had to retreat past Paris, they still had an army that was about the same size as the attacking Germans, and they would have been playing defense.... which would have put a serious fucking crimp on Germany taking over the whole country.

instead they rolled over, played dead, and put their absolute Hero of WW1 in charge of the downfall and collaberation.

 

 

 

 

They may have been large but they were significantly outdated and disorganized. They moved way too slowly and were unable to organize quick enough before they were overran by Germany. 

14 minutes ago, Vertuzzi said:

They may have been large but they were significantly outdated and disorganized. They moved way too slowly and were unable to organize quick enough before they were overran by Germany. 

And they went Static. Never hide behind a wall. Smack the fucker in the mouth and go for the gonads. 

They learned that after Dien Bien Phu. 

Russian ambassador to France shit-talking 

It will be war." - Russian Ambassador to France Alexey Meshkov said on RTL radio that the downing of a Russian aircraft over a NATO country would mean the beginning of a military conflict. He also added that NATO aircraft allegedly "quite often" violate Russian airspace, but they are not being shot down.

Yeah, NATO is threatening to attack Russia after invading Belarus, threatening to nuke Moscow and St. Petersburg, and following it up by flying aircraft all over Russian airspace, and constantly talking about it on government TV stations.

Arrested Development Flirt GIF
 

 

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This guy nailed it

https://x.com/Breflactu/status/1971279950419538296

Russia doesn’t want World War III, it just wants everyone thinking it’s coming. This is diplomacy as karaoke—loud, off-key, and meant to clear the room. Over 300 intercepts in 2025 and we’re still here, bills unpaid, coffee cold. If every intercepted Russian jet meant war, we’d be on World War 29 by now. But no, it’s the same tired bluff: bark like a pit bull, bite like a chihuahua. NATO’s not fooled—they log the flight, scramble the jets, go back to paperwork. Russia’s deterrence is basically a toddler banging pots in the kitchen: loud but harmless. The real trick is psychological—keep the West twitchy, keep the headlines screaming. It’s not strategy, it’s a magic act: distract from weakness with smoke and mirrors. Four times more violations since 2022, but zero studies linking that to actual war. Because war isn’t the point—the point is making you believe war is the point. It’s saber-rattling without the saber, just a cheap tambourine. The ambassador’s “ultimatum” is a stand-up routine dressed as geopolitics. The joke’s on anyone who takes it literally. Watch the jets, not the mouths—they burn fuel, not credibility.

2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

 

Eh.  Wake me up when we send some Americans flying F14's.

1 hour ago, CHIEF said:

Fuck, just set up a meeting at the Olney Dairy Queen with the AgTractor guys, trade the herbicide/insecticide tank, and its full weight, for some armor and wing attachment points. An SUU-23 20mm gun pod under each wing shooting 6k rounds per minute, each. I bet an armored AgTractor would be under $1.5 million. This wouldn't necessarily be ideal for drones, but it sure would be fun for strafing Russian trenches at the front lines. A poor man's A-10, from a non-military defense contractor.

CHIEF

And the ag pilots who fly them would be adept at downing drones.  Those guys are highly skilled pilots.

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

If Ukraine starts really eating into their fuel supplies as it looks like they are doing, and then launches an offensive somewhere or cuts off large units, would be interesting to see how Russia could respond.

I was surprised to read about a potential Ukrainian offensive in the following article, but if they can disrupt oil refining and transport enough, maybe it starts to make sense: 

Trump changed position on Putin after ‘briefing on planned Ukrainian offensive’

In the lead up to his meeting with his Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelensky, the US president met with officials advocating a tougher stance on Moscow

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/europe/trump-briefing-ukraine-russia-war-b2833421.html

 

1 minute ago, KYHorn said:

I was surprised to read about a potential Ukrainian offensive in the following article, but if they can disrupt oil refining and transport enough, maybe it starts to make sense: 

Trump changed position on Putin after ‘briefing on planned Ukrainian offensive’

In the lead up to his meeting with his Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelensky, the US president met with officials advocating a tougher stance on Moscow

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/europe/trump-briefing-ukraine-russia-war-b2833421.html

 

Is there a reason to be in a hurry?  What about weaponizing Rasputitsa and the cold winter.  Focus on hitting infrastructure while ground forces do whatever they can do to recuperate.  Seems time is on Ukraine's side?

9 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Is there a reason to be in a hurry?  What about weaponizing Rasputitsa and the cold winter.  Focus on hitting infrastructure while ground forces do whatever they can do to recuperate.  Seems time is on Ukraine's side?

not really.  when this alll started Russia had something like 180 million people.  and Ukr had 45M.  something like 5M Ukr left and never returned.

Russia can lose 5 guys for every Ukrainian in terms of attrition... and while the Ukr estimate that  they have killed or seriously wounded 1.2M Russians, they themselves have had something like half a million serious casualties/deaths

thats not sustainable for them.   

Yeah Russia will end up on the fucked up side of things, but  they are used to death and mass casualties.

Ukraine needs to find the way to get Russia out in 2 ish years or less or Ukraine may end up having to give up the Donbas and Crimea and agree to not join NATO.... which is the primary reason for this whole fucked up war in the first place. 

But if Russia gets that reprieve they will re arm and re attack within 15 years. 

“Here’s a bunch of glide bombs, Norway.   We’re not sure which of your neighbors you might use them on, but here’s 800 of them.”

“Oh.  Look Norway, those glide bombs are for your exclusive use, because only you have F-35A fighters.  What? You mean Denmark and Poland have them too?   And you belong to the Nordic Defense Cooperation with Denmark, Sweden Finland and Iceland?  Well, for God’s sake don’t let the Poles borrow them or they’ll lose them in Russia somewhere…”

Fuck, just set up a meeting at the Olney Dairy Queen with the AgTractor guys, trade the herbicide/insecticide tank, and its full weight, for some armor and wing attachment points. An SUU-23 20mm gun pod under each wing shooting 6k rounds per minute, each. I bet an armored AgTractor would be under $1.5 million. This wouldn't necessarily be ideal for drones, but it sure would be fun for strafing Russian trenches at the front lines. A poor man's A-10, from a non-military defense contractor.
CHIEF

Who’s gonna tell him?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Tractor_AT-802?wprov=sfti1#

*looks like AB beat me to it!
3 hours ago, Walser said:

We are going to win.

If gas shortages are hitting Moscow and it’s only September, things are looking up.

From a few days ago, but the 80s kid in me that collected a shitload of books of photos of fighters loves the shot

G1XXcaGXgAAZ-pg?format=jpg&name=large

Happy Don Rickles GIF
 

Don’t think they realize what a conflict with the West would do to their military.
 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-09-25/europeans-privately-tell-russia-they-re-ready-to-shoot-down-jets?srnd=homepage-europe

At a meeting in Moscow, a Russian diplomat told the British, French and German envoys that the Russian air incursions into Estonia were a deliberate response to Ukrainian attacks on Crimea, officials familiar with the exchange tells Bloomberg.

G1td0-YW8AACyYd?format=png&name=4096x409

Guess whose husband died yesterday after being in a coma since January?

Margarita Simonyan

GFe-7chWgAADHbP?format=jpg&name=large
 

 

Ricky Gervais Lol GIF
 

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte: The whole day yesterday, we had the Kremlin saying, "No, we are not a paper tiger. We are a bear." Well, you know, if you are a bear, you don't have to announce yourself to be a bear because everybody will notice. This shows a lot of weakness on the Russian side. And clearly, the president [Trump] hit a nerve here.

 

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4 minutes ago, Schulz2.0 said:

 


Taiwan: please allow the Russians to take over all training of the Chinese military.

11 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Ukraine continues attack on Russian radar systems in Crimea.

 

Hmmm... "Especially, the numerous losses of radar assets in this peninsula have significantly increased over the past weeks."

Did the US finally give in and allow the Ukraine to have JASSM? Is that one of the things that they have been training on over the last year... 

JASSMs would be a major game changer for static targets in Crimea. 

15 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I don’t know if Putin wants to risk the loss of face - Russia pushed things too far with the drones and now NATO is all but looking for an excuse to shoot one down. The talking heads on Russia state TV couldn’t explain why a Russian plane was shot down in NATO territory if it happened, and why a Russian pilot (or his body) is being held by NATO forces.  I don’t even know they would dare mention it on state TV - if gas rationing is really kicking in, and budgets are drying up, the Russians are going to ask why Russian planes were in NATO airspace if it happens.

But Lavrov says NATO has declared war.

 

Russia would love if NATO declared war because it would justify forcing Russians to fight as slaves immediately rather than paying them to sign up and later tricking them into slave contracts. 

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10 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

Hmmm... "Especially, the numerous losses of radar assets in this peninsula have significantly increased over the past weeks."

Did the US finally give in and allow the Ukraine to have JASSM? Is that one of the things that they have been training on over the last year... 

JASSMs would be a major game changer for static targets in Crimea. 

Armchair general thoughts

  • Russia is clearly rattled about something, to the point where they are trying to scare/fuck with NATO. This clearly ratcheted way up over the last week.
  • Ukraine is damaging Russia’s oil and gas infrastructure to the point where there is rationing and shortages all over, even in Moscow.  As PTINS mentioned, everything from delivery to refinery operations.
  • Ukraine has been ramping up attacks on Russian stuff in Crimea and the Russians bitched to the German and British ambassadors about those attacks. That post above and others mentioned radars, although hitting the radars could be a part of their campaign against the oil and gas infrastructure and not necessarily about any offensives on the ground - if the Russians can’t see the missiles or drones until they are close to their targets, it increases the chances of missiles and drones getting through. Added bonus of forcing the Russians to move air defense systems and radars away from Ukraine’s borders, also giving the Ukrainians more time in the air before being detected.
  • Ukraine has their new missile in service, and also some solid drones.  Seems like the Kerch Bridge is a question of when, not if.
  • Trump seems pretty convinced Ukraine has the ability to knock Russia off the board.  Now he’s like Joe Rogan and is always impressed by the last person he talked to, but what he said went above and beyond simply having listened to Zelenskyy paint a nice picture and parroting that - seemed like he’s probably seen some data/intel.

Say the Ukrainians continue hitting oil and gas infrastructure hard, like they did last night. There are already fuel shortages in many areas.  Keep doing that for another month to where it impacts military operations more than it may be now.  Continue blinding Russian forces in Crimea by taking out radars. Now drop the Kerch Bridge, forcing the Russians to rely on a long, but shallow land bridge to get people and supplies and fuel in and out of Crimea and to eat up even more precious fuel.  Ukraine has great missiles and the railroads are fixed positions so the rail lines will go down and that land bridge would be covered with Ukrainian drones looking for vehicles.  Now there is the water option, but fuel is still a problem, and ships can’t easily move people or supplies in large quantities without becoming juicy targets, and they have to unload at ports or some facilities with cranes, which are fixed positions (targets) and it’s slow to unload ships.

I’m more optimistic than I was just a few months ago. Putting aside the economic impacts (Russia going into deficit spending and not having much oil and gas to export), if they have fuel shortages in Moscow, you know military fuel supplies will end up on the black market. It’s a very interesting time and I wouldn’t be surprised if we get a very clear picture over the next week or two.

I’m not aware of any nations buying Russian debt, and their war chest is running on fumes, so the deficit spending is likely straight up money printing. You hate to see it. 

25 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I’m more optimistic than I was just a few months ago. Putting aside the economic impacts (Russia going into deficit spending and not having much oil and gas to export), if they have fuel shortages in Moscow, you know military fuel supplies will end up on the black market. It’s a very interesting time and I wouldn’t be surprised if we get a very clear picture over the next week or two.

1234

What has been the turning point?  Is it as simple as Ukraine being able to doggedly wear down Russian infrastructure?  They've been barely able to take out assets barely faster than Russia can replace?  Do that for 2.5 years (!) and you achieve superiority?

1 hour ago, Schulz2.0 said:

 

Who could they possibly have left that knows how to do that? Those people died in the first year of this war.

51 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Armchair general thoughts

  • Russia is clearly rattled about something, to the point where they are trying to scare/fuck with NATO. This clearly ratcheted way up over the last week.
  • Ukraine is damaging Russia’s oil and gas infrastructure to the point where there is rationing and shortages all over, even in Moscow.  As PTINS mentioned, everything from delivery to refinery operations.
  • Ukraine has been ramping up attacks on Russian stuff in Crimea and the Russians bitched to the German and British ambassadors about those attacks. That post above and others mentioned radars, although hitting the radars could be a part of their campaign against the oil and gas infrastructure and not necessarily about any offensives on the ground - if the Russians can’t see the missiles or drones until they are close to their targets, it increases the chances of missiles and drones getting through. Added bonus of forcing the Russians to move air defense systems and radars away from Ukraine’s borders, also giving the Ukrainians more time in the air before being detected.
  • Ukraine has their new missile in service, and also some solid drones.  Seems like the Kerch Bridge is a question of when, not if.
  • Trump seems pretty convinced Ukraine has the ability to knock Russia off the board.  Now he’s like Joe Rogan and is always impressed by the last person he talked to, but what he said went above and beyond simply having listened to Zelenskyy paint a nice picture and parroting that - seemed like he’s probably seen some data/intel.

Say the Ukrainians continue hitting oil and gas infrastructure hard, like they did last night. There are already fuel shortages in many areas.  Keep doing that for another month to where it impacts military operations more than it may be now.  Continue blinding Russian forces in Crimea by taking out radars. Now drop the Kerch Bridge, forcing the Russians to rely on a long, but shallow land bridge to get people and supplies and fuel in and out of Crimea and to eat up even more precious fuel.  Ukraine has great missiles and the railroads are fixed positions so the rail lines will go down and that land bridge would be covered with Ukrainian drones looking for vehicles.  Now there is the water option, but fuel is still a problem, and ships can’t easily move people or supplies in large quantities without becoming juicy targets, and they have to unload at ports or some facilities with cranes, which are fixed positions (targets) and it’s slow to unload ships.

I’m more optimistic than I was just a few months ago. Putting aside the economic impacts (Russia going into deficit spending and not having much oil and gas to export), if they have fuel shortages in Moscow, you know military fuel supplies will end up on the black market. It’s a very interesting time and I wouldn’t be surprised if we get a very clear picture over the next week or two.

Adding all this up, one wonders at what point the guys on the front say, "fuck it" and pull a 1917.  Nationwide strikes, some guys at the front just drop their weapons and start marching home, or keep their weapons and march towards Moscow?

Once there's not enough fuel, the gears are going to start grinding down pretty quickly.  

37 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

Who could they possibly have left that knows how to do that? Those people died in the first year of this war.

 

To be more specific, those people died in the first month of the war, a massive chunk of them got wiped out at Hostomel airfield, another chunk were kiled on the Kiev death road, and the rest in the Battle of Mariupol. 

I havent seen the "iconic" horizontal striped white and blue undershirt in any pics since the 1 year anniversary of the start of the war  back in 2023 where the spetznatz troops were honoring the fallen of the previous year. 

Atom/Inka: Pound for pound, what western European NATO member punches the hardest?  (Per capita) who has the most capable military?

Edited by Parliament

4 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Ricky Gervais Lol GIF
 

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte: The whole day yesterday, we had the Kremlin saying, "No, we are not a paper tiger. We are a bear." Well, you know, if you are a bear, you don't have to announce yourself to be a bear because everybody will notice. This shows a lot of weakness on the Russian side. And clearly, the president [Trump] hit a nerve here.

 

Rutte bringing the zingers. Notice: lots of time on Fox News.

 

18 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Sure, you wait until you have clearance from control to shoot - hold off until the target is in the clear, then have at it.

 

Star Wars GIF by Johanna Healy

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4 hours ago, Schulz2.0 said:

 

That's like Shaq teaching someone to shoot free-throws. 

19 hours ago, Vertuzzi said:

Historically, France has been badass on the battle fields. We would have never won our war for independence without the support of France. They just so happened that to have ran into an absolute juggernaut in WW2 and their image has yet to recover since. 

Agreed, a lot of people need to read some basic history books on the matter.  The Fight for Independence was going nowhere fast without Ben Franklin living in France for 9 years convincing them to nearly bk their country to help us.  He was masterful, a near celebrity and won over the support.

19 hours ago, AUS-97HORN said:

yes.... 

and no

France had the LARGEST Army (by far)  in the world in 1940. They had the most tanks, they were even more mobilized than Germany.  and they got out-manuevered, out-strategized, and had worse tactics.

then when they got worked over, and had to retreat past Paris, they still had an army that was about the same size as the attacking Germans, and they would have been playing defense.... which would have put a serious fucking crimp on Germany taking over the whole country.

instead they rolled over, played dead, and put their absolute Hero of WW1 in charge of the downfall and collaberation.

 

 

 

 

From my readings (its been quite some time).... France declared war on Germany in 39 advanced past the Maginot Line but withdrew after 8 mos of no action thiking between the Maginot Line, the Ardennes forest and the Belgium resistance, that would hold off the Germans.  Shortly after, Belgium army offered no resistance that surprised the French and eventually Dunkirk happened. They also underestimated how quickly the Germans would take the Ardennes(SP). The UK couldn't convince them to stay in as we were close to joining too, by that time they had lost 300K men and Italy had joined the Axis powers to their immediate southeast

Edited by jdhorn92

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