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#1601
16 hours ago, HenryJames said:

Tivoli, Orvieto, Ostia Antica 

Full agreement with these suggestions.  Also Spoleto.  Easiest for sure is Ostia Antica.  Very chill.  If you schedule enough time, you can walk over to the Tevere and have lunch on the river on the west side of the ruins.  There are also restaurants in town near the castle. 

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    That sounds like a good idea.  However, I would have missed this: I didn't realize that the second day in Florence would be the celebration of St. Giovanni and the championshipp calcio storico ga

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#1603
1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

@texasdago or anyone else--any suggestions/thoughts on 72 hours in Venice in January?

Stay in Dorsoduro, not San Marco.  Better prices, better vibes, less touristy yet still central.  

#1604
24 minutes ago, texasdago said:

Stay in Dorsoduro, not San Marco.  Better prices, better vibes, less touristy yet still central.  

Counterpoint: the St. Regis on Marriott points.

#1606
37 minutes ago, texasdago said:

I mean, free is free

So with that one detail out of the way, any thoughts on restaurants or stuff to do?

Keeping in mind that it's January.  So it'll be cold.  Sitting on a patio isn't much in the cards.  But drinking in a bacaro definitely is.

#1607
22 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

So with that one detail out of the way, any thoughts on restaurants or stuff to do?

Keeping in mind that it's January.  So it'll be cold.  Sitting on a patio isn't much in the cards.  But drinking in a bacaro definitely is.

Man, its been a while since I was in Venice so my info is probably dated.  When we went it was in late November and it was foggy and dreary but that had its own charm.  We just liked wandering around and getting somewhat lost which is great with Google Maps (unlike what it used to be like).  The gondola ride is super touristy... if you try to catch you from a less busy spot when the weather is crappy, you might be able to get a better deal.  If there is the acqua alta, you might have to deal with some flooding so just be aware.  Honestly, the last time we went, I was happiest when not around the San Marco area so the further from there, the better it was.  That's a personal opinion but maybe not uncommon.

#1608
15 minutes ago, texasdago said:

Man, its been a while since I was in Venice so my info is probably dated.  When we went it was in late November and it was foggy and dreary but that had its own charm.  We just liked wandering around and getting somewhat lost which is great with Google Maps (unlike what it used to be like).  The gondola ride is super touristy... if you try to catch you from a less busy spot when the weather is crappy, you might be able to get a better deal.  If there is the acqua alta, you might have to deal with some flooding so just be aware.  Honestly, the last time we went, I was happiest when not around the San Marco area so the further from there, the better it was.  That's a personal opinion but maybe not uncommon.

Yeah--I think that's kind of where I am.  It's been probably 20 years since I was in Venice, but my key takeaways were:

1) It's incredibly hot, humid, smelly, and crowded (none of which should be a real issue in January);

2) Even so, you don't have to go far from San Marco to find yourself completely lost and wondering down the most magical little alleys; 

3) It's expensive AF.

4) But . . . you can hop from bacaro to bacaro eating cicchetti and have a fantastic "meal" for 15 Euro.  You can buy a day pass on the Vaporetto for 25 Euro and ride the boat all around the Lagoon.  You can walk through some of the most amazing churches in the world for nothing or next to nothing.  In other words, you can fill a full day in Venice doing all the Venice stuff for less than 50 Euro.

 

Anyway--this'll be different.  I figure a gondola ride will be nice when it's cold.  I imagine the gondaliers have blankets underneath which I can get handsy with Mrs.LL--that's definitely something you can't do in the Summer.

#1609
On 12/1/2025 at 1:17 PM, Ghost of LL said:

Counterpoint: the St. Regis on Marriott points.

This.  I stayed there in May.  I got upgraded to a Canal Front Suite.  I will post my photos.  It was not terrible.

I loved Venice. My friend is marrying a Venetian, so we are headed back in September for the wedding (staying at Hotel Cipriani where the wedding is taking place).  I have a load of recommendations from when I was there, and I was being told where to go by a Venetian (I still have the texts).  Will post them here this evening.

#1613

Man, y'all would laugh at the types of places we stay when we go to Italy.  I can include pictures of our laundry hanging on a line, the owner's cats wandering the property as we go to our apartment above a restaurant, the pile of shopping bags to reuse for our daily run to Conad or Coop.  Maybe I can get my wife to take a picture of me acting like the local closed circuit TV for the block...

Who needs security cameras when you have Sicilian grandmas on patrol? 👵🔍  #SicilianSecurity #BalconySurveillance #SicilianFoodCulture 

#1615
1 minute ago, YChang said:

Oy, now I'm in the mood for a Venice trip in January. 

I'm trying to see if I can pull off a flight into Italy next summer with miles.  

#1616
1 minute ago, texasdago said:

I'm trying to see if I can pull off a flight into Italy next summer with miles.  

Please share all the tips. I just got back from Athens & Istanbul and want to explore more of the Med countries. But I also enjoy going to places that are not at the height of tourist season. 

#1617
14 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

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Ok, if we are going to post pics of cool Italy digs, I’ll play. 

San Bonifacio near Maremma

 

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Treehouse outside Florence

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#1618

Here are some completely random Italian pictures...

Knockoff cologne in a supermarket in Puglia.  For those who don't speak Italian, "Gabbiani" means seagulls:

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Me crying while taking a picture of fresh burrata and mozzarella di bufala:

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Emergency brakes on my car at the beach:

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The beach:

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Foraged arugula:

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One of the best views in Puglia at a fraction of the cost.  Second time we stayed here.  This time we had air conditioning.

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Herbie: 

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Probably spent a total of 12 weeks in this apartment, looking at this view... and I miss it so much.

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#1620
16 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

ITA starting up direct flights from IAH to Rome in 2026.  

Was looking at prices... seemed kind of high but man that would be nice

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#1623
On 12/14/2025 at 10:39 PM, YChang said:

Ok @texasdago

Gonna be in Venice from Jan 15 - 20 (With a day trip to Verona)
Genoa: Jan 20 - 23
Milan: Jan 23 - 25

Give me your recs!

Well shit, go skiing just not at one of the resorts tied to the Olympics. Never been to Genova but it has the largest historic centre in Europe. Milano... been a few years... navigli area for restaurants, bars, etc and I'm always a sucker for the Castello Sforzesco.

Meanwhile, looks like we will indeed fly in/out of Rome this summer. Just a few days in Rome to visit family and because we haven't been in something like 10 years. Otherwise, we'll then head to the beach. Most likely options are Sperlonga, Gaeta, Numana (other side in Le Marche) or possibly Argentario. Leaning towards Sperlonga or Gaeta depending on what I find. Haven't been in 20 years. If we go, first breakfast there will be a sfogliatella.

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Edited by texasdago

#1625
On 9/1/2025 at 7:07 AM, hookem2010 said:

I've been attempting to plan an international family trip for a while, but they keep getting derailed. We're now thinking of going bigger and saving up time and money to do about 10 days potentially in Italy next September. I know basically nothing about the country.

The direct AA flight for DFW to Rome is appealing because we've got some miles and will be traveling with a 4 and nearly 2 year-old, but Rome kind of sounds like a cluster fuck as a home base for us. Wife is looking for a coastal town with great food that is accessible with kids. We'd both like to experience some cool historic sites, as neither of us have ever been to Europe. I'd like some beautiful natural scenery to maybe sneak in a hike or two (if it was up to me entirely, we'd go to the Dolomites). Preferably not too much jumping around from place to place.

Would one of the islands (Sicily/Sardinia) or a mainland destination best meet what we're looking for? I've read the last few pages, but will probably work my way through the entire thread at some point.

trying to do something similar, did you come up with an itinerary?

I may do a combo of Bavaria, Austria, Dolomites, Venice, and maybe into Croatia, Could use Rome as a layover city coming or going and do two days there.

Wife and 3 kids have never been to Europe, I've seen some of the stops on the way but not Croatia. High priority sites would be a WWII prison camp (Dachau), Neuschwanstein Castle, Salzburg (Sound of Music), then down to Italy through the Dolomites to Vicenza (a Maybe) and Venice. We could then take the train to Rome.

#1626
12 hours ago, TexasEd said:

trying to do something similar, did you come up with an itinerary?

I may do a combo of Bavaria, Austria, Dolomites, Venice, and maybe into Croatia, Could use Rome as a layover city coming or going and do two days there.

Wife and 3 kids have never been to Europe, I've seen some of the stops on the way but not Croatia. High priority sites would be a WWII prison camp (Dachau), Neuschwanstein Castle, Salzburg (Sound of Music), then down to Italy through the Dolomites to Vicenza (a Maybe) and Venice. We could then take the train to Rome.

What time of year are you looking? And how old are the kids?

Summer in Venice with little kids sounds miserable.

At the risk of turning this into the Austria thread, I would sub Vienna for Venice if you're in the Summer. We did a similar itinerary this past summer (added a few days in the Tyrol to do white-water rafting and canyoning and such because the kids are older) and had a blast.

#1627

I will advise what I usually do... don't move around too much. Pick a couple of bases and stay there and take side trips. I swear some people's itineraries just wear me out.

#1628
6 minutes ago, texasdago said:

I will advise what I usually do... don't move around too much. Pick a couple of bases and stay there and take side trips. I swear some people's itineraries just wear me out.

Love this. It's the dichotomy of a rural and metro vacation though. Rural you have a lot of travel time between places and urban you can get overwhelmed. Here's my thought after a day of looking at plans and I know this is the Italy thread but Austria and Bavaria and right next door.

Travelers are my and wife, Kids are/will be 19, 17, and almost 13

Land in Munich

  • Get rental car and use it to go to Dachau for a couple of hours and then

  • Find a base near the Austria border (Leaning Garmisch or Oberammergau) for day trips to Oberammergau, Hohenschwangau, Neuschwanstein, Zugspitze, etc. Turn in Rental car in Germany, maybe in Garmisch-Partenkirchen due to the train line to Innsbruck.

  • Train leg from Garmisch to Innsbruck (80 minutes?). Innsbruck could be a day trip and then continue or overnight stay.

Italy

  • Train leg from Innsbruck to Northern Italy base for 4-5 days. I love Vicenza and have been there multiple times, Padua is another good option. Do things in town and day trips to places like Venice, Citta-Della, Verona, Vicenza/Padua, etc.

  • Venice - From my experience I don't think I want to stay in Venice but take the train in and do a day trip. (Train for 5 people from Vicenza is about $100 round trip without a discount)

  • Train leg to Rome

  • 2 nights in Rome for a full day with priority sightseeing of St Peters, Sistine, Colosseum, and a few others. I've done this solo before and the busses were very easy to use to get around but that was over 20 years ago.

Depart Rome

Notes:

  • I'll be looking to reduce airfare as much as I can so if landing in Frankfurt and a train to Munich area made more sense I would do that so any recommendations welcome.

  • Driving in Italy is not fun, not even when I was in my 20s, so I would like to do intercity trains.

  • Looking at available rail passes and discounts now. If we're there 5-7 days with several intermediate trips and one longer trip I hope I can find something. Something I read said that the Euro rail pass was not a good deal for Italy.

  • Family has never been to Europe. I have been to most places on this list including all the Bavarian sites, Innsbruck, Vicenza, Venice. I have not been to Padua or Verona so I would want to include those. I did a 24 hour layover in Rome 20 years ago.

  • 19 year old wants to see the dolomites, I think a train ride from Innsbruck to Italy sounds good to me. We could get a car and drive up there one day if that doesn't scratch the itch.

Edited by TexasEd

#1629
16 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

Love this. It's the dichotomy of a rural and metro vacation though. Rural you have a lot of travel time between places and urban you can get overwhelmed. Here's my thought after a day of looking at plans and I know this is the Italy thread but Austria and Bavaria and right next door.

Can't help you so much with Austria and Germany. My sole experiences in Austin were skiing in the Oetztal Valley. I've passed through Innsbruck before and that looked nice and to get from Innsbruck down into Italy/back is super easy.

Mind you, I actually look forward to driving in Italy. I love it. I mean, parking can suck but I love the energy of driving around Italy. I haven't taken a train in 20 years. Anyway, you could do Vicenza or Padova or even something like Verona so that you are near Lake Garda.

On the train, how are you pricing it out? First class? Second class should be way cheaper and you can listen to someone talk on their cell phone for the whole journey.

#1631
45 minutes ago, texasdago said:

Can't help you so much with Austria and Germany. My sole experiences in Austin were skiing in the Oetztal Valley. I've passed through Innsbruck before and that looked nice and to get from Innsbruck down into Italy/back is super easy.

Mind you, I actually look forward to driving in Italy. I love it. I mean, parking can suck but I love the energy of driving around Italy. I haven't taken a train in 20 years. Anyway, you could do Vicenza or Padova or even something like Verona so that you are near Lake Garda.

On the train, how are you pricing it out? First class? Second class should be way cheaper and you can listen to someone talk on their cell phone for the whole journey.

Train tickets default to second class. 13 year old qualifies for a free ticket most of the time.

I was doing a lot of night driving doing shift work training people when I was there in the 90s. I thought I was going to die a few times in the roundabouts and single lane roads. It’s where I learned to like cappuccino

Edit: Parking and vehicle size are another consideration. I can get a 5 seater with luggage space easier in Germany than Italy. The bill goes up crossing borders with additional fees and insurance so trying to work around that too.

Edited by TexasEd

#1632
8 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

I was doing a lot of night driving doing shift work training people when I was there in the 90s. I thought I was going to die a few times in the roundabouts and single lane roads. It’s where I learned to like cappuccino

Edit: Parking and vehicle size are another consideration. I can get a 5 seater with luggage space easier in Germany than Italy. The bill goes up crossing borders with additional fees and insurance so trying to work around that too.

Yeah, I hear you. We were there during the Tour de France in 2024 and I'm amazed I didn't kill a few cyclists on back roads. And I totally agree on the car size - had a big ass wagon last March in France because I brought my skis and too much ski gear. Parking that thing was absolute misery. I hated it. I really need to get my family to pack lighter so we can get smaller vehicles when in Italy. And, yes, the drop off fee to another country is absolute ass. I've always avoided doing a one-way trip from one country to another.

#1633
1 hour ago, TexasEd said:

19 year old wants to see the dolomites, I think a train ride from Innsbruck to Italy sounds good to me. We could get a car and drive up there one day if that doesn't scratch the itch

One day in the Dolomites isn't nearly enough. Though the drives aren't for great distances the traffic is slow and the roads are windy and obviously hilly. We were there this past June for 4 nights and I wish we'd had more time there. Ortesei was a great base and has two gondolas. One to Seceda and one to Alpe di Siusi.

#1634
1 minute ago, VABuckeye said:

One day in the Dolomites isn't nearly enough. Though the drives aren't for great distances the traffic is slow and the roads are windy and obviously hilly. We were there this past June for 4 nights and I wish we'd had more time there. Ortesei was a great base and has two gondolas. One to Seceda and one to Alpe di Siusi.

IIRC your trip was a lot of hiking, right? I think we could do one day of hiking but not multiple. Did you have teens with you? (Neuschwanstein can be a hike to the top too)

I was planning on the Zugspitze being a gondola day before we get to Italy.

Whole plan is a draft right now though.

Edited by TexasEd

#1635

Just my wife and I. We hiked some but not a lot. Did the 3 mile loop around Lago di Braies and walked some of the trails in Seceda and Alpe di Auisi. There is a LOT of driving between the sites. We tried to do Tre Cime but they limit the number of people in the park and we missed out.

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#1636

So my plan looks to be unfolding...

Land in Rome - 4 nights in Rome with a mix of sightseeing (boys haven't been there in years) and seeing family. Might roll in a day out to Ostia Antica to get away from the chaos or, if my uncle is still in town, out to his house in the country (build on top of a Roman outpost, cool history/artifacts, olive groves, peace and quiet)

7 nights in Sirolo to just hang out at the beach and take side trips in the area or to see friends

2 nights most likely in Capua (son really wants to see Reggio di Caserta and I want to see some of the Roman ruins in the area)

1 night in Rome and then we piss back off home

The anfiteatro Campano is the second largest next to the Colosseum in Rome...

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...and Sirolo will not suck. More on Sirolo and Numana... https://italysegreta.com/the-understated-marche/

Spiaggia in mezza ombra

#1638
13 minutes ago, Scary Stranger said:

I literally stayed in that hotel in June.

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Too funny. When we went we were staying in Riva for a week and then drove down to that bay and hung out on the beach. We went to the hotel for lunch but realized we couldn't stay there in the future until our boys were older (adults only). But it such a great peaceful spot.

BTW white boat with blue stripe in both pictures.

Edited by texasdago

#1639

Theres a nightjet/euronight train service connect many major destinations if you want to avoid flights and simultaneously save on time.

like the venice or zurich service to vienna is basically 8pm to 8am and the cabins are pristine.

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#1640
On 12/14/2025 at 10:39 PM, YChang said:

Ok @texasdago

Gonna be in Venice from Jan 15 - 20 (With a day trip to Verona)
Genoa: Jan 20 - 23
Milan: Jan 23 - 25

Give me your recs!

We are on our third day in Venice today, and I'll tell you--I would never again do Venice in any month other than January. During the height of the day, Piazza San Marco is nearly empty. In the evening--it's absolutely deserted.

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It’s moody at night. The canals are empty. There’s Mystery.

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I can't give you just a whole lot of recs. Most of the places I've found have just been bacari that we've popped into for a couple cicchetti and a spritz (I've been told that only the children drink Aperol--it's like a Bartles & Jaymes; adults drink a Cynar spritz). We're just spending every day getting lost in town.

In January, though, you can just grab a space at the base of the Rialto and they’re happy to have you.

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I've been here in the Summer. It's miserable. It's full of tourists who are only here for the day. It's hot. It doesn't particularly smell good.

In January, it's nearly empty. Everyone is chill. The mornings are foggy; the afternoons have been sunny. It's genuinely amazing.

Edited by Ghost of LL

#1641

I’ve been in the winter before when I had business nearby but was either solo or with work colleagues. It was great.

With kids in school were going in June. I guess I could have planned for Christmas and New Year’s break. 🤷‍♂️

#1643
21 minutes ago, Chopper said:

part metro stop

part museum

Would visit friends in Rome and see all the construction. We would always talk about how it was taking an eternity because anytime they dug, they found something and had to stop construction. Unfortunately, those friends died a few years before it was finished - they would have been amazed. Really cool and to think that way more lies buried underneath Rome.

#1644
On 12/14/2025 at 10:39 PM, YChang said:

Ok @texasdago

Gonna be in Venice from Jan 15 - 20 (With a day trip to Verona)
Genoa: Jan 20 - 23
Milan: Jan 23 - 25

Give me your recs!

Just back from Venice and have a handful of thoughts.

  1. We did a cicchetti tour one evening with Barbara at Devour Tours and had a great time. She grew up and went to university in Venice, so she took us to some of her familiar haunts where she knew the owners and all the bartenders, told us about the history of what we were eating and drinking, and the local culture and etiquette. I'd highly recommend.

  2. Gondolas are a fixed price set by the City. It's 90 Euro for 30 minutes, but longer times & routes can be negotiated. We took two gondola rides, because why not? One during the day and the other in the evening. From that, I can tell you that the gondoliers are a fantastic resource.

    On our daytime ride, we asked whether we could grab a bottle of wine for the ride. Yeah--sure. No problem. He ran with us to a bacaro around the corner. He obviously knew the staff. We bought a bottle and they loaned us a couple glasses, which we brought back after the ride (we had plenty of wine left after the ride, so we hung out and had some cicchetti, which the gondolier recommended).

    On the evening ride, we figured out that the gondola ride doesn't have to be roundtrip. Now maybe that's just in the evening, because we were his last fare of the day. But I suspect anything is negotiable. We told him that we'd want to go to dinner afterwards at some trattoria and gave him some thoughts on what we were looking for. He gave us a couple suggestions, we picked one, and he took us right over there. A gondola ride in January is amazing--we didn't see another boat (gondola or powered boat) during our 45-minute ride until the very end when we had to cross the Grand Canal. Even then, we just saw a vaporetto and a couple taxis.

  3. The vaporetto is an easy way to see a lot of the archipelago and get around the city, but it's not cheap. A single ride is 9.50 Euro. But you can get a full-day pass for 25 Euro or a 72-hour pass for not just a whole lot more. That's the way to go if you have any ambitions of making it out to Murano and want to see a bit more of the city than just the bits around San Marco and Rialto.

  4. Mrs. LL decided she wanted to see the bridge from the fight scene in Mission Impossible: Dead Reckoning, which is up in Castello (it's the Ponte dei Conzafelzi). It's a bit of a hike, but I'm glad she did because it was our favorite part of town. There were a ton of great little bacaros and such that we stopped in for a drink and a snack. Can I tell you where they were? Fuck no--we were lost af. But that's the point of Venice. Just roam around and get lost. And when you're done, use Google Maps for directions back to your hotel. It's probably only like five minutes away.

Edited by Ghost of LL
Fixing typos.

#1645
57 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Fuck no--we were lost af. But that's the point of Venice.

My dad told me a story about taking us to Venice when I was a kid and we got lost... this was waaaay before Google, Intertubes or anything... just pure confusion with no idea how to get back out of that particular part of Venice. Good times. Google maps has us spoiled.

#1646
8 minutes ago, texasdago said:

My dad told me a story about taking us to Venice when I was a kid and we got lost... this was waaaay before Google, Intertubes or anything... just pure confusion with no idea how to get back out of that particular part of Venice. Good times. Google maps has us spoiled.

I mean, on the one hand it's impossible not to get lost in Venice. No street goes for more than a couple blocks. They dead-end into canals or, more maddeningly, the follow a bridge over a canal that is then just a closed private door. They meander around with no apparent reference to the cardinal directions. And the normal reference to landmarks is limited because one campo quickly starts to look like any other.

On the other hand, it's kind of impossible to get too terribly lost in Venice. If you can just keep heading in the same general direction, eventually you'll run into St. Mark's. Or the Grand Canal. Or the Rialto. Or at least a sign pointing you to one of them.

It's such a genuinely weird city.

#1647
3 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

I mean, on the one hand it's impossible not to get lost in Venice. No street goes for more than a couple blocks. They dead-end into canals or, more maddeningly, the follow a bridge over a canal that is then just a closed private door. They meander around with no apparent reference to the cardinal directions. And the normal reference to landmarks is limited because one campo quickly starts to look like any other.

On the other hand, it's kind of impossible to get too terribly lost in Venice. If you can just keep heading in the same general direction, eventually you'll run into St. Mark's. Or the Grand Canal. Or the Rialto. Or at least a sign pointing you to one of them.

It's such a genuinely weird city.

Yeah and when people try to refer to other places like "its the Venice of Northern Europe" like Bruges or I had someone tell me about the Venice of the Canary Islands (we were visiting Puerto de Mogan) there's nothing remotely close. It is completely unique and fascinating and so much more interesting and complex that the main areas seen by tourists.

#1648

Other than that it’s gonna a bit spotty with the rain while I’m there. I’m so looking forward to it. Lol, signed up for a rowing class too. Will post pics!

#1649
47 minutes ago, YChang said:

Other than that it’s gonna a bit spotty with the rain while I’m there. I’m so looking forward to it. Lol, signed up for a rowing class too. Will post pics!

Oh, and by the way--don't order an Aperol spritz. Only tourists and teenagers just learning to drink order an Aperol spritz. Select and Cynar are the preferred local aperitifs for turning into a spritz. They're more bitter and complex than Aperol (but neither is nearly as bitter as Campari, which is also a favorite).

One other recommendation--the bacaro on the San Marco side of the Rialto bridge and to the right of the bridge is great. Get there a bit before noon and you can grab a table facing out on the canal and just people watch. They serve Paulaner by the liter and the cicchetti and panini are actually pretty good. Yeah, the prices are high. But you're looking out on the Rialto bridge--what do you expect?

#1650

Love the Venice stories, planning a trip in June and I've been there twice back before GPS was common. Taking my family who has never been to Europe and I plan to tell the kids they are in charge of leading us around just to see what ensues.

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